Greater Sydney back to level 1 water restrictions from today

[kingie chaser]

Wow, what a horrible & devastating summer it was here in NSW with the fires & then some of the same people being hit by floods.

I know several adjoining property owners in the Adelong area that had their 15000 hectare properties wiped out in the fires with only houses  & shed still standing(thank goodness!) but major livestock losses in to 1000's with one of them hit by a double blow also losing a 2nd property which was an apple orchard at Batlow.

They are all hard at work fixing infrastructure, fencing etc & as far as I am aware have not seen a single cent from all those donations, which is why my mate & I donated money directly to them through their local Elders accounts.

 

One good note is we have seen the L2 restrictions reduced.

I guess with that's happened with the dam level dropping the way it did it does highlight we all need to think more about the way we use water & not take it for granted, BUT governments need to look at better ways of 'future proofing' our water supply.

https://www.sydneywater.com.au/SW/Whatsthelatest/SWP_CDF_DD_219132

 

Still as mentioned in other threads, imo the Sydney basin is being way overpopulated & unless they come up with a solution in months we could be back to under 50% & back to L2.

Heard that there could be a plan to raise the height of Warragamba, but it still has to rain!

[zmk1962]

Agree. We can all do a bit more and the government needs to get more strategic and less opportunistic. 
I actually have a roofer coming over today to extend a gutter so that I can collect rainwater from another section of the roof which will almost double my collection area. 
cheers Zoran 

[noelm]

Building dams is a very complicated business, simply daming a river causes all sorts of drama downstream, and upstream, we certainly need more water, and relying entirely on rain is not working with the population growth we have. Desalination is an idea, but, requires massive power to run it, massive power needs to be generated, creating another "issue", it's not so black and white unfortunately.

Edited February 29, 2020 by noelm
Typo

[Rebel]

It's great to have water tank, no restrictions.

[kingie chaser]

42 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

Agree. We can all do a bit more and the government needs to get more strategic and less opportunistic. 
I actually have a roofer coming over today to extend a gutter so that I can collect rainwater from another section of the roof which will almost double my collection area. 
cheers Zoran 

Totally, I hope with all these new 50/100/200 apartment buildings  going up everywhere it mandatory to have tanks installed in them somewhere!

So much coastal rain just ends up in stormwater drains. & goes out right next to the desalination plant! 

35 minutes ago, Rebel said:

It's great to have water tank, no restrictions.

Many people aren't lucky enough to able to have them eg. apartment holders/townhouses etc.

If you own a freestanding home then yes sure.

Im sure the gov had a water tank subsidy going but how many took it up?

[noelm]

Apartment buildings are required by law/code to have certain compliance, like adequate parking and so on, why not simply include a rainwater collection system too? I know it won't be easy, and the collection area is small compared to resident numbers, but, it's better than nothing, even if collected water is only for maintenance and cleaning.

[kingie chaser]

8 minutes ago, noelm said:

Apartment buildings are required by law/code to have certain compliance, like adequate parking and so on, why not simply include a rainwater collection system too?.

Definitely, would be to hard in most existing building but I hope they are doing it in the new builds?

 

Maybe someone in the building/architect area could comment on if it is happening?

[frankS]

I am /was lucky enough to have a water restriction exemption permit but I felt a bit guilty to use it when others around me couldn't .

As for victims not receiving any benefits yet. my mate in Cobargo got $1000 up front to help out with small things like lack of electricity etc. he was lucky enough to have his house and sheds saved and had a generator which powered his freezer and a few essential items . He will use the $1000 to buy a new water pump for his dam which is now pretty empty.

Frank

[Rebel]

Water tanks and Solar are the only way to beat the systems, put in place by the so called friendly Governments.

Cheers.

[big Neil]

Infrastructure is essential of course but education is equally important. When I came here from the UK (long time ago) I was appalled at the blatant misuse of water on what I was led to believe was among the driest continents on the planet. People taking 15 minute showers, taps running while brushing teeth and watering gardens during the hottest part of the day are among some common practices. Seriously WATER IS OUR MOST VALUABLE ASSET. Every single person needs to understand that and work towards saving every single drop.

All of the observations in this thread have merit. Definitely new developments need to come with solar and water tank facilities as standard. All that being said we still need rainfall... We do get a lot of rain in Australia, in certain places and certain times of the year. If only we had the infrastructure in place to distribute THAT WATER to the bottom two thirds of the continent, our problems would be greatly reduced.

That's my 2 bobs worth...

bn

[61 crusher]

I’m in the plumbing game & from what I’m aware of is on the domestic market, the new suburbs cropping up on the outskirts are getting a second meter (lilac) for recycled water for toilets & laundry, it’s been gong for quite sometime hopefully still being implemented. Depending on council all new pools & builds must have a rainwater tank and/or retention pit. Some people are including rainwater tanks in there extensions but most haven’t hooked them up to the toilets (costs involved) because you need mains water connected as back up

The average 2000 litre tank only takes approximately 15 minutes of good rain to fill & is useless after long dry periods hence why mainly used for irrigation purposes.

Retention pits in duplexes & high rise are mainly there for slowing stormwater flow to reduce minor flooding as we are loosing a lot of land for the natural absorption of rain In built up areas

Educating people on how to use water wisely is one of the key factors In saving our most precious commodity.

Correct  infrastructure for storage & distribution by the government is what is really needed but as we all know if there isn’t a buck to be made it ain’t going to happen fast or at all

[Rebel]

I have a 5000 litre water tank. I just have to stay ahead of the Council, because they are vultures.

Cheers.

[noelm]

7 hours ago, Rebel said:

Water tanks and Solar are the only way to beat the systems, put in place by the so called friendly Governments.

Cheers.

In a way correct, but, unless you have a big solar setup, and battery system (which is as expensive as the solar panels) then, you are still tied to "the grid" and only make electricity during daylight, so, your TV and lights are not usable for free at night (when you need them) add to that days a heavy cloud, and you are in trouble without a big battery bank setup. Water is kind of easy, until we have a long consistent drought like we have, most water tanks were dry ages ago, people got tanks filled from water trucks, which kind of doesn't make sense, because they fill up from the mains. It's a long and complicated equation, there is no quick fix, even though people think there is.

[noelm]

Just to add something here, which is kind of getting off track, possibly our best long term option is nuclear power, it's cheap and long term, it's not all easy, but it beats hydro, solar, wind, coal and anything else by a long shot, we could run desalination plants for near no cost, but, it's not seen as "friendly" 

[Rebel]

I don't want to get into a War. I grew up on a large Farming property. I saw the problems with water big time, I will say no more, without Water you will not survive.

Cheers.

[61 crusher]

9 minutes ago, Time22 said:

I'm working on a construction site in Newcastle there is always a tap running on site somewhere and they are clearing the site next door. Hoses running all day there to keep dust down from machines and to hose trucks as they leave the site. They connect to the underground hydrant so its all unmetered. 

That’s a good way to keep costs down but at what cost, a few locals happy because there yards aren’t covered in a bit of dust

[kingie chaser]

2 hours ago, noelm said:

Just to add something here, which is kind of getting off track, possibly our best long term option is nuclear power, it's cheap and long term, it's not all easy, but it beats hydro, solar, wind, coal and anything else by a long shot, we could run desalination plants for near no cost, but, it's not seen as "friendly" 

We have had a nuclear reactor in Sydney at Lucas heights since I can remember, the Aus gov will wake up some day to how great a solution it is over fossil & lack of efficiency of green alternatives.

[kingie chaser]

1 minute ago, Time22 said:

That's the problem with big construction companies unfortunately. Local council need their money so it's easier to put the home owners on restrictions. Sydney is the same

In the height of L2 restrictions we had a small mains leak in the street behind my building, was leaking at the rate of 100ltrs a minute, Sydney water assessed it & then came back 2 weeks later to fix it.

Meanwhile we would be fined for not adhering to 'their' rules 🙄

[61 crusher]

1 hour ago, Time22 said:

That's the problem with big construction companies unfortunately. Local council need their money so it's easier to put the home owners on restrictions. Sydney is the same

Unfortunately, especially in the big smoke the mighty dollar rules & that’s how politicians state & federal like to see the world roll

[61 crusher]

1 hour ago, kingie chaser said:

1 hour ago, Time22 said:

 

In the height of L2 restrictions we had a small mains leak in the street behind my building, was leaking at the rate of 100ltrs a minute, Sydney water assessed it & then came back 2 weeks later to fix it.

According to Sydney water in the big   scheme of things that’s not classified as an emergency by our local water authority, people would be absolutely horrified if they new what condition our mains are or were in & the amount of gigalitres that are lost on a daily basis, years ago it was roughly an Olympic swimming pool every couple of hours, based on plumbers that used to work for them. Either way it’s not good considering how old some of the water mains are

[kingie chaser]

29 minutes ago, motiondave said:

lucas heights in a very small reactor and its medicine purposes, not power, always has been...

I never said it was for power!

Just merely stating we have had one for years.

Edited March 1, 2020 by kingie chaser

[zmk1962]

18 hours ago, noelm said:

Just to add something here, which is kind of getting off track, possibly our best long term option is nuclear power, it's cheap and long term, it's not all easy, but it beats hydro, solar, wind, coal and anything else by a long shot, we could run desalination plants for near no cost, but, it's not seen as "friendly" 

Hi @noelm, I agree we need a better energy solution, and if we had infinite energy then an abundance of cheap clean water can also become a reality.

However, I do have major concerns with nuclear - it comes at a heavy price when things go wrong - eg Chernobyl, Fukishima, even NY had a scare with their nuke reactor on Three Mile Island  -  the impact of a radioactive leak is around for 100-200,000yrs and even if in Oz we locate the power plant out in the desert a leak there would enter the precious ground water system. 

I run a solar system without batteries (there's a write up on an earlier FR post) and I am well aware of the impact of cloud etc, but frankly I could not be happier with my system. I am basically off the grid all day and exporting energy into the grid. I do consume about 200w/hr (>15c/hr) in the evenings with the laptops, LED lights and TV running, and an additional 13c/hr for the times the offpeak hot water cuts in. I can't justify a battery system to solve those overnight costs but look at the total load I have taken off the grid during the day which is the peak business and industry consumption time (and I'm saving about $3500pa in power costs). Solar can be a step in the right direction.

The more interesting aspect I have learnt from looking at my solar reports is that every 48kwh I generate saves  the EQUIVALENT amount of CO2 that one tree removes from the air.

Play with that equation a bit and it implies that if we burnt coal for our power, but planted a tree for every 48kwh produced we would be carbon neutral. Ofcourse the mining operation and restoration of mine sites need to be taken into consideration as well.  

But, given Oz has 1/3 of the worlds brown coal supply, wouldn't it be a great GREEN industry for the power companies and the government to get together and start planting renewable tree plantations (which themselves could be a revenue generator as we all need timber for building, paper, etc) to offset the coal generated CO2.  We'd also be creating green jobs in the forestry / management industry.

Other eastern European countries that don't actually have the landmass or resources we have are already getting onto these types of ideas, they pay something like 10% of their coal generated power cost to 3rd world countries like Gabon to actually maintain and protect their rainforests (as a CO2 offset) rather then chop them down to be sold as timber.

I think we just need to be smarter with the technology we have and the resources we have rather then throw the dice with nuclear.  

Cheers Zoran

 

PS - I was in Dural Bunnings the other day, and noticed a large LED display on the wall above the checkouts highlighting that Bunnings had installed Solar on many of the warehouse roofs - they were projecting that on that day they had generated 62Mwh of electricity, enough to power 32,000 standard homes ... thats a big load of the grid, which means the fossil generation plants can probably be sized for the average - not the peak load.  

Edited March 2, 2020 by zmk1962

[noelm]

I don't personally think a modern nuclear plant is likely to create a disaster as the older ones mentioned. Lucas Heights was mentioned, they do lots of "stuff" there besides medical, I have been there plenty of times, there is no simple answer, what seems great creates another side issue that's not so great, how politicians and greens sell these "issues" makes it difficult to just (say) build a new dam.

[jeffb5.8]

46 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

PS - I was in Dural Bunnings the other day, and noticed a large LED display on the wall above the checkouts highlighting that Bunnings had installed Solar on many of the warehouse roofs - they were projecting that on that day they had generated 62Mwh of electricity, enough to power 32,000 standard homes ... thats a big load of the grid, which means the fossil generation plants can probably be sized for the average - not the peak load.  

Makes my 7Mwh I have generated since 20th Sept 2019 look small, and I have a 9.9kW system on the roof, No battery as the pay back is way to long, the $8,000 of solar I put on my roof, should be paid back in 3.4yrs, have save $1181 since the install and its only been 6mths.

Bring on PW3 or the next generation in batteries, half the size, 30% cheaper and same storage, then I will consider getting one.

Edited March 2, 2020 by jeffb5.8

[JonD]

Dropped back to level 3 for us tomorrow Eurobodalla.