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Questions on catching kingfish land based


Gengar

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I have just started trying to catch kingfish from wharves/piers in Sydney. I have seen them being caught so they are definitely around. Spoke to the fishos who caught them and done some online research so i have a few basic ideas. I even managed to hook one (not sure if it was a kingfish but it broke off as I was trying to reel is in). My method is to caught some yakkas and use them as live bait under a float (20g or 30g). I tried using an adjustable double snell rig but the sliding hook kept on coming loose and so ended up just using the one hook which was hooked just behind the yakka head on the top but before the fin. One of my rod uses 25lb braid plus 17lb flouro leader while the other one uses 14lb braid and 17lb leader. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

(1) Do i need heavier main line or leader? Some say I need at least 50lb for flouro leader but is it right to have a heavier leader than main line?

(2) Planning on using a fixed two snell rig. Where should I put the hooks in the yakka? I have read you should put it either in top part of the mouth (going in from the mouth), across the nose, on the upper back and lower back near tail.

(3) At the moment my float is about 3.5m. Is that shallow/deep enough?

(4) Some mentioned pinning the yakka down with a heavy sinker using a running rig so the yakka stays at the bottom. Anyone tried that?

(5) I use these black jarvis walker 4/0 circle I buy from kmart. Are these the right size and good to use? I also have some 2/0 circle or 2/0 suicide.

(6) Is there a way to increase the chance of my yakka being taken? I do berley but as the yakka isnt always swimming close to the wharf/pier that makes it difficult.

Thanks all!

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If I was specifically targeting kings then I would be using 2 set ups, one with 20 or 30lb braid with about the same leader, maybe 40lb if there is a lot of structure & also a 50lb braid with 60lb leader.

Suicide hook 5/0 or 6/0's minimum & just a single snelled hook place behind the head(in the shoulders) of the live yakka.

If you were to catch some swuid as well it would increase the odds having 2 live baits, sometimes they will only take squid, sometimes only yakkas, sometimes neither & will hit SP's or stick baits so have a back a plan/tackle as well.

I only use a double hook snell on squid or dead baits.

Berley is always a good thing, a frozen log in a mesh bag tied to the pier is what I would do, the baitfish will come in & hopefully followed by the kings.

 

So you could have 2 rods out, one in deep & one floating, obviously in different directions otherwise you will get a lot of crossover.

 

Everyone will fish slightly differently but that would be my method.

 

Good luck. 

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Thanks mate. Seems i am on the right direction esp on rigging the yakka.

Is there a reason you have two rods with different line weights?

Seems one of my rod (25lb main plus 17lb leader) is fine but will need up the other rod. Perhaps get my surf rod.

Any reason you would only use double snell on dead bait but not live baits?

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57 minutes ago, Gengar said:

Thanks mate. Seems i am on the right direction esp on rigging the yakka.

Is there a reason you have two rods with different line weights?

Seems one of my rod (25lb main plus 17lb leader) is fine but will need up the other rod. Perhaps get my surf rod.

Any reason you would only use double snell on dead bait but not live baits?

Well I guess I am used to fishing out of a boat so I am fishing for different things at the same time. 

Sure you run the risk of picking up a big king on the lighter set up buy I guess being in a boat I can move it into clear/deeper water but if you just have one rod then I would go heavier, especially on a pier.

Your set up(with a heavier leader than 17lb) will probably be ok for rat kings but get something like a 80cm+ model on & it will sort you out quick time, get a 1mtr king & it still might dust you on 50lb braid & 60lb leader!

If your fishing around structure for kings up the leader otherwise 9 out of 10 times you wont land them imo.

 

Double snell for live squid yes as it will still swim freely, double on a live yakka & it wont swim well or look natural to the king.

Edited by kingie chaser
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Hi Gengar,

We fish for kings off the rocks up here but I would think the general principals are the same.

With regards to line/leader fish as light as you can get away with. I generally fish my drags 1/3 of the line rating. Therefore on your 17lb leader you would be fishing about 5lb of drag. Any decent king will hve you to the hozizon or wrapped around the nearest structure in about 3 seconds. I would suggest starting with 30-40lb leader and setting your drag around 10-15lb as a start. If you are losing fish to structure or breaking off you might need to up it a little.

Not sure what depths you are fishing or bottom structure you have but if you can fish a bottom rig (just enough weight to keep your livey in place) without getting snagged then either fish a bottom and top rig (as suggested by kingy chaser) or fish a top rig in low light conditions and a bottom rig during the middle of the day.

I never fish two hook rigs, I usually find the kingys hit the head of the livey and hook up anyway. Very rarely do we get hits without hooking up if the kings are serious. 

Best of luck mate, hope to see some successful reports if you can get out.

Bolts

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Thanks for all the advice guys. Really appreciate it!

Looks like time to grab a heavier leader. Thinking of getting the 50lb Shimano Tiagra which hopefully would be enough. Does that mean I also need a heavier mainline? I have braid (14lb and 25lb) and also mono (20lb) but do i need to up and if so would 40lb braid mainline be enough?

Now i need to know if my shimano reel can handle 10-15lb drag. Wish they put numbers on the drag dial to make it easier to figure it out!

For the bottom rig on the yakka would you think a size 1 star sinker (which i would use for beach fishing) be heavy enough? I was thinking of tying that to the mainline.

I have quite a few dead yakkas now which i have frozen. For using as dead bait do you just cut it up in chunks, fillet the sides or as a fisho recommended to me yesterday to butterfly it (ie pull the main backbone and rig the whole yakka)?

I would be heading this this weekend so fingers crossed!!!

Edited by Gengar
Added extra question.
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Hey Mate,

 

Your 25lb braid should be fine for mainline. If you are respooling in the future I would up it a little to 30 or 40lb. The main reason you go lighter for mainline is to increase your casting distance which isnt really an issue for livebaiting - especially if you are floating your baits and swimming them out. If there are a lot of guys fishing where you are, it can be better to run mono all the way through as you have less chance of cutting other guys lines if there is a lot of action. 

I usually use small snapper leads or ball sinkers when livebaiting to limit the chance of getting snagged.. just take a range of sizes your first trip and you should work out how light you can go and still keep your livey under control. 

We never fish dead baits for kings off the rocks (as livies are pretty easy to get) but I I was fishing dead baits I would go fresh squid or a single fillet knocked off the side of your yakkas. Just make sure when you rig the fillet they sit flat and present naturally in the water.

What Shimano reel are you running? you can find out most of the specs online.. just set the drag using a set of fish scales and see how smoothly the line comes off the reel under tension.

 

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20 minutes ago, Bolts1 said:

Hey Mate,

 

Your 25lb braid should be fine for mainline. If you are respooling in the future I would up it a little to 30 or 40lb. The main reason you go lighter for mainline is to increase your casting distance which isnt really an issue for livebaiting - especially if you are floating your baits and swimming them out. If there are a lot of guys fishing where you are, it can be better to run mono all the way through as you have less chance of cutting other guys lines if there is a lot of action. 

I usually use small snapper leads or ball sinkers when livebaiting to limit the chance of getting snagged.. just take a range of sizes your first trip and you should work out how light you can go and still keep your livey under control. 

We never fish dead baits for kings off the rocks (as livies are pretty easy to get) but I I was fishing dead baits I would go fresh squid or a single fillet knocked off the side of your yakkas. Just make sure when you rig the fillet they sit flat and present naturally in the water.

What Shimano reel are you running? you can find out most of the specs online.. just set the drag using a set of fish scales and see how smoothly the line comes off the reel under tension.

 

Got it. In that case I will prob use my 25lb braid and 20lb mono coupled with a 40lb leader (which i need to buy).

Might be a stupid question but how do you know the sinker is keeping the livey under control? Also are the lines going to get super tangled with the livey swimming around?

Just checked my reel has a max drag of 6kg. Guess i just turn and tighten the drag all the way or should i still use scales to measure 6kg?

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I fish 30lb leader, or 50lb leader. 5/0, 6.0 7/0  livebait hook through the nose, bridled is better. If you're around snags I use the 50lb but 30lb is fine on a float. You can catch kings on any size line. They pull as hard as you pull on them. I have caught them on 8lb you just need to play them lightly. Live bait is best. Yakkas and squid but a live (legal) tailor, slimey mac, bonito, frigate mackerel,  salmon. Some people use live snapper and Luderick although I do not agree with using undersize fish my point is that the kings eat anything and everything while remaining very fussy. The tailor are good because they don't have the scoots Yakkas do which are the had spines down the length of the tail, so I would prioritise squid and tailor over Yakkas but. Whatever you catch as long as its legal is better live than having some cut baits. Some good dead baits are the ones you are using live or what you are burleying. If you see kings in your burley send out what you burelyed. I have caught a king on some bread doing this but don't fish with bread out unless they are activley feeding on the bread.

If they are busting up and hitting the top. Mimic the bait that they are eating. Most universal soft plastics do the job but have a few different colours and change every few casts. Don't throw a monster popper if they are eating mini whitebait but if you see them eating tailor then maybe a monter popper is good. 

Pier 8 is really good. I fish there a fair bit but not for a while since the lockdowns. 

If you tie good strong knots with your lines FG and UNI and set the drags perfectly so that they handle the fast rungs the kings do you should be able to put the hurt on them and pull them away from the snags. I had one at pier 8, 2 months ago that beat me on 50lb leader 70lb mainline that took a live yakka. So sometimes they are unstoppable but that is the nature of fishing for kingfish. 

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Hi gengar. If you are fishing weighted on the bottom you will know you have the right amount of weight as your lovey will stay pretty much in the same spot. If you use a running sinker rig your line shouldn’t get tangled.

always start by setting your drag with scales. The rating on your reel is the maximum drag it can handle while working properly. You can tighten them further but the line will not release smoothly if the fish takes a fast run. Once you get the feel of the right drag setting you can adjust up or down depending on conditions.

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On 4/14/2020 at 5:46 PM, James Clain said:

I fish 30lb leader, or 50lb leader. 5/0, 6.0 7/0  livebait hook through the nose, bridled is better. If you're around snags I use the 50lb but 30lb is fine on a float. You can catch kings on any size line. They pull as hard as you pull on them. I have caught them on 8lb you just need to play them lightly. Live bait is best. Yakkas and squid but a live (legal) tailor, slimey mac, bonito, frigate mackerel,  salmon. Some people use live snapper and Luderick although I do not agree with using undersize fish my point is that the kings eat anything and everything while remaining very fussy. The tailor are good because they don't have the scoots Yakkas do which are the had spines down the length of the tail, so I would prioritise squid and tailor over Yakkas but. Whatever you catch as long as its legal is better live than having some cut baits. Some good dead baits are the ones you are using live or what you are burleying. If you see kings in your burley send out what you burelyed. I have caught a king on some bread doing this but don't fish with bread out unless they are activley feeding on the bread.

If they are busting up and hitting the top. Mimic the bait that they are eating. Most universal soft plastics do the job but have a few different colours and change every few casts. Don't throw a monster popper if they are eating mini whitebait but if you see them eating tailor then maybe a monter popper is good. 

Pier 8 is really good. I fish there a fair bit but not for a while since the lockdowns. 

If you tie good strong knots with your lines FG and UNI and set the drags perfectly so that they handle the fast rungs the kings do you should be able to put the hurt on them and pull them away from the snags. I had one at pier 8, 2 months ago that beat me on 50lb leader 70lb mainline that took a live yakka. So sometimes they are unstoppable but that is the nature of fishing for kingfish. 

Thanks James. Where is Pier 8?

Guess now I need to learn to catching some squids!!

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9 hours ago, Bolts1 said:

Hi gengar. If you are fishing weighted on the bottom you will know you have the right amount of weight as your lovey will stay pretty much in the same spot. If you use a running sinker rig your line shouldn’t get tangled.

always start by setting your drag with scales. The rating on your reel is the maximum drag it can handle while working properly. You can tighten them further but the line will not release smoothly if the fish takes a fast run. Once you get the feel of the right drag setting you can adjust up or down depending on conditions.

Ok that makes sense.

Also I been researching into how to bridle a live bait. When you bridle a live bait does that mean to predator fish can't take it from the front? I been told Kingfish tend to eat head first so does that mean it wont be effective against Kingfish?

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2 hours ago, Gengar said:

Thanks James. Where is Pier 8?

Guess now I need to learn to catching some squids!!

Walsh bay look it up on google maps, the other piers have no fishing allowed. Set your drag at around 2 thirds of the breaking strain. you can set the drag even higher just check what your reel is able to produce and what your rods line rating is. The comment about using scales is correct, i do this. I am not overly strong I usually set the drag to about 15 then back it off a touch so I know I can lock up even more.

Edited by James Clain
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Hi Gengar,

I'm no expert on bridled livies.. (only time I ever do it is when I'm trolling). When you are fishing a weighted rig or under a float you should be fine just pinning them behind the head. Probably just personal preference though, others on here might have a different opinion.

You are right about the kingies taking the baits head first, but either method of rigging the baits (bridled or pinned) will hook up as the hook point is still exposed. 

Good luck mate, you will learn the most by getting out there an having a go, watching the guys that are catching fish and asking them for advice. No substitute for local knowledge.

Bolts

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Again thanks all for all the advice.

I have now bought 50lb leader and 40lb braid but unfortunately that's not gonna arrive till next week. I will head out early on Sat and Sun to try to catch some fish! Will let you know how I go!

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My new 50lb leader hasnt arrived yet so went out early today with my 17lb flouro leader. Sent out some live yakkas but no bites but sent out fresh dead yakka fillet and got a big bite. But unfortuntaly on trying to reel it in the line broke. Not sure what it was but i wasnt pulling too hard when line broke so think the fosh chewed through the line. Hoping the 50lb leader will prevent this next time? Sigh.....

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7 minutes ago, Gengar said:

My new 50lb leader hasnt arrived yet so went out early today with my 17lb flouro leader. Sent out some live yakkas but no bites but sent out fresh dead yakka fillet and got a big bite. But unfortuntaly on trying to reel it in the line broke. Not sure what it was but i wasnt pulling too hard when line broke so think the fosh chewed through the line. Hoping the 50lb leader will prevent this next time? Sigh.....

Either a Big tailor or a knot failure.  There have been a few recently, where abouts were you?

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8 minutes ago, James Clain said:

Either a Big tailor or a knot failure.  There have been a few recently, where abouts were you?

Neutral bay wharf.

I used two snelled hooks and the line holding the bottom hook came off. The line seemed to have been bitten through. If it was a big tailor what line should i use to prevent it next time?

Also when using live yakkas on floaf my main line came back all tangled.....am i doing something wrong?

Anyone tried using chicken as bait to catch kingfish?

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Hi Gengar,

I wouldn't be too worries about the tailor, you should be fine with your 50lb leader and they aren't your target species anyway.

How did you pin your livey when it was under the float? When pinned behind the head the livey will generally pull down and away from you and I have never ended up with a tangled line. The 50lb leader may also help with this as it will be a bit stiffer. 

I've never tried chicken for kingfish bait, your best bet will be either live fish baits or squid. 

keep persisting mate, if the fish are there they will hit a well presented livey any day of the week :)

 

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13 hours ago, Gengar said:

Neutral bay wharf.

I used two snelled hooks and the line holding the bottom hook came off. The line seemed to have been bitten through. If it was a big tailor what line should i use to prevent it next time?

Also when using live yakkas on floaf my main line came back all tangled.....am i doing something wrong?

Anyone tried using chicken as bait to catch kingfish?

If you specifically want to catch tailor a light wire is what you want but if you want to catch kings and a tailor eats your bait you just gotta keep the pressure on the fish and hope you get it. I have caught big tailor on 8lb but also lost smaller tailor on heavier line.

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3 hours ago, Bolts1 said:

Hi Gengar,

I wouldn't be too worries about the tailor, you should be fine with your 50lb leader and they aren't your target species anyway.

How did you pin your livey when it was under the float? When pinned behind the head the livey will generally pull down and away from you and I have never ended up with a tangled line. The 50lb leader may also help with this as it will be a bit stiffer. 

I've never tried chicken for kingfish bait, your best bet will be either live fish baits or squid. 

keep persisting mate, if the fish are there they will hit a well presented livey any day of the week :)

 

My 50lb leader should come in this week so looking forward to weekend!

I am still experimenting on how to hook the livie. I have tried hooking it on back just behind the head but before the first set of fin with the second snelled hook further down the back.

Also I tried running a 2.5mm cable tie just in front of the eye (ie the soft part around the eye) and zipping it tight with a hook. Like a bridle as some have suggested which seems to work.

I either use a 4/0 circle or 2/0 suicide with the float depth set to about 3m.

It doesn't tangle all the time but did for one of the rods though I can't remember how that particular livie was rigged up.

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1 hour ago, James Clain said:

If you specifically want to catch tailor a light wire is what you want but if you want to catch kings and a tailor eats your bait you just gotta keep the pressure on the fish and hope you get it. I have caught big tailor on 8lb but also lost smaller tailor on heavier line.

I don't have any wires so hopefully the new leader I have coming this week prevents line breaks! Guess its just part of the fun!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Finally managed to spend some time with the new 50lb leader. Have been using two rods one with 40lb braid and 50lb mono leader and the otherbis 25lb braid and 20lb mono. I have had three big fish hooked but so far they have take the 20lb mono and the lines have broken off......could it be that fish are spooked by the thicker 50lb leader or is it just my bad luck?

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