From Yamaha to Mercury, think I will

[GoingFishing]

14 minutes ago, dunc333 said:

 to nolem are you dissputing my  dissplacement values  of 996cc f70 and merc 996cc 60 hp as i will say again all new outboards are good.these days any brand, price ,dealer location support ,and your trust in your local dealer  .no 1 thing is correct rigging of any new engine .cheers dunc333

Noelm is of the belief that the only outboard worth buying is Yamaha and all other brands be discounted on principle without any further research or consideration.....irrespective of any first hand user experience given by other raiders and also irrespective of any anecdotal data such as that produced by you and Zoran!!!!

Irony is....yammie could be the right engine for this swap ! But I don't think all other brands should be overlooked for no valid reason

[GoingFishing]

@motiondave

Here are some stats on the Evinrude G2 150HO which i took personally on my maiden voyage with my boat.

Stats speak for themselves i say. Pretty eye opening to see how much more efficient the G2 150 is on fuel than it's competitor 4 stroke of same HP.

Just one of the many misconceptions out there!!!

(ps i had to convert that darned American system to metric system- approx)

1200rpm/ 6 knots / 4.5 litres hr

3500rpm/ 22 knots/ 18 litres/hr

4500rpm/30 knots / 27 litres/hr

WOT/ 39 knots / 43 litres hr

Yamaha F150

20 KNOTS: 25L/HR @3500RPM

26 KNOTS: 29.9L/HR
30 KNOTS: 35.9L/HR
34 KNOTS: 47.6L/HR
Most Efficient Cruise: 4.1 mpg at 3,500 rpm / 23 mph

Source : https://www.boatingmag.com/is-bigger-boat-motor-better/

Edited June 10, 2020 by GoingFishing

[PaddyT]

So thats your boat against another boat with a different engine/prop/set up? 

[jeffb5.8]

8 hours ago, motiondave said:

Evinrude : freight trains of grunt but drink like a mutha...

What year Evinrude?

My 2016 115Hp Etec is very good on fuel and now its been fixed very efficient on oil as well,

I went the Etec because I could have a 130hp Etec or 100hp Suzuki, ended up with a 115 etec Minimum was 90hp so I though the 115hp would be enough.

Some of the comments on here border on aggression, nobody on here owns a outboard company, so there is no need for the angst over someones opinion. Give your experience and if someone else has a different opinion so be it, unless they directly have a crack at you be like Anna from Frozen and "Let it Go."

I now like my 2016 115hp Etec and its been great for the last 75hrs, but have also been in very similar boats to mine with Honda 4stroke and Suzuki 4 strokes and there is not much difference between them, they are quieter at 4am when they start, I'm slightly quicker off the mark but top end we are very similar, add in some wind and chop and we all travel at similar speeds for comfort.

I have to get mine serviced every year, just like the 4 stroke outboards, the old 3yrs 300hrs didn't work (To many issues in the first 50hrs) and then Evinrude added 2yrs extra warranty if yearly serviced.

So servicing was very similar to my mates Honda and Suzuki with cost different being around $60 in my favour but they only have to travel 25mins to a dealer I have to drive 1hr each way as dealers are few and far between.

There will be pros and cons for each outboard but the buyer has to weigh these up, the internet is full of myths and disappointed buyers, but for every 1 sad buyer there is 10 who are loving their outboard.

Here is my thought

1. Pick you HP (More is better 90% of the time)

2. research your brands, Weight, dealer location, price, warranty length, what your mates have

3. buy it get it set up right, new fuel lines, gauges, wiring, filters

4. enjoy

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by jeffb5.8

[GoingFishing]

1 hour ago, PaddyT said:

So thats your boat against another boat with a different engine/prop/set up? 

Even if you account for + or - 10% for varying boat hull design, weight and prop setup......there is still a significant difference in fuel consumption with the G2 still being far more efficient.

Great advice @jeffb5.8, agree with you 100%. I guess the issue here is that certain individuals are quick to blindly recommend one brand and not give any other brand consideration. Theres nothing wrong with letting the original author of this post know that the other brands are equally as good, which is essentially what you, i and some of the others have said !

Edited June 10, 2020 by GoingFishing

[Scienceman]

OK, on topic again. Was ready to drop my hard-earned and made one last call to a local outboard repairer who has a good reputation to see his thoughts, and turns out he is a Tohatsu dealer. His comments were pretty reasonable about Yamaha (nothing negative except for gearbox seals on work boats) and he pointed me to the MFS60 released last year: https://www.tohatsu.com.au/node/1523

After deciding to go with the F70 I am reluctant to consider 60hp instead however this article ran it on a similar length weight boat and seemed to go fine: https://www.fishingworld.com.au/boats/reviews/mad-dog-and-tohatsu-60hp-four-stroke-review#:~:text=The%203%2Dcylinder%2060%20is,board%20communication%20connectivity%20(optional).

Things I like: 

- 20Kg lighter than the F70

- $1400 cheaper than the F70. (with current EOFY discount - $9,600)

- newer design, the F70 was released ~8 years ago (but this shows it's reliable too)

- Local servicing/repairs not 30min drive away

- 5 year warranty Vs 3 year

Ahhh, hate these decisions. Will sleep on it over the weekend. Anyone got feedback on the Tohatsu?

[JonD]

One thing I would have to say is never believe any of those boating magazine or performance reports put out by manufactures. If you use a prop calculator many of those reports quote speeds that simply aren't possible with the pitch props being used even with 0% slip. Every engine Ive owned hasn't come close to those reviews, maybe its because I drive with the anchor out all the time🤪. Remember these are also new boats without anchors chains and a full belly of fuel etc. An example is the figures on my exact hull Suzuki did full  tests on with the same engine, Im almost 14km under their top speed and a full km per litre worse at cruise speeds even with an almost empty fuel tank and on my own. The yam f70 on both my relatively light formula and zodiac were both way behind the performance of a double the weight cruise craft.

 

[Scratchie]

The best motor you can buy is the one that gets you from A to B safely and consistently.  They come in all sorts of brands. Every brand has there pros and cons like choosing a car. 
Feedback is often based on personal experience and bias to a brand that has worked for the user. 
Finding a motor that best suits your application is often difficult without experiencing the different performance that all brands offer. 
I’ve been out with many raiders on different boats from a 30hp tinny to a 46 footer with dual Cummings engines. Suzuki, Yamaha, Mercury, Evinrude Etec, Tohatsu and the list goes! 
I rate all of them, as they got us from A to B safely, as they were well looked after and suited the boats application. 

Some of the info on this thread is fantastic and should help you with your decision. Good luck and I hope you find the motor that is right for you! 
 

cheers scratchie!!! 

[Scienceman]

After sitting on the fence and even asking my wife to make the decision for me (risky I know 😉) I decided to go with the Mercury 60CT. Reasoning:

- dealer is 5 min away Vs 1 hour

- was convinced the power (torque) was very close between the two motors(see attached graph, even though this is a Mercury doc I believe the graphs look authentic) with the 60CT having as good or slightly better hole-shot but expecting to drop ~5 km/h at WOT.

- No other major technology differences between them; same displacement, both injected, same gearing, same weight etc

- $1000 cheaper 

- dealer found the OEM 15P prop didnt get close enough to 6000 rpm WOT and offered to upgrade to a 14P SS prop for cost price (extra $250), retails for >$800. Read that this can reduce slip from ~25% to ~10% but if you hit a solid object it can damage gear case etc. Decided to go with it. 

Shake down cruise on the weekend. Confirmed hole-shot is acceptable and only slightly slower than the old 70 2st. Very smooth, flat power band up with plenty of torque across the rev range. 5800 rpm WOT at 50km/h as expected. The boat is a 2000 Bay Ranger Caprice 475 so hardly a performance hull and becomes skittish at high speeds and crashes rather than glides over waves. 3500rpm -  4500rpm = 30km/h - 40km/h very sweet running, so quiet.  Don't need the fastest hole-shot or the fastest top speed as my use is 60% estuary: 20% open bay: 20% near off-shore, fishing only, no skiing or towing. Very little opportunity to run close to WOT and most boating is ~35 km/h, except for very short periods.

Two negatives to be worked on, 1) Prop chatter at idle. Reported to dealer who said to see if it settles down. Read that it can be common on all makes of small 4 st engines, more often with SS props. Mercury have a Flo Torque kit which can help but is expensive. Will be pushing dealer to fit as not happy with the noise/shaking. 2) Throttle leaver has to be moved a long way before engages with engine. Then the distance travelled for the full rev range is very small so can be difficult to adjust for fine rpm control. Also difficult to quickly accelerate without going WOT. Hoping this can be adjusted but not confident. 

Overall level of satisfaction: 80%. Got pretty much what I expected and happy with the result. 

F70 Vs 60 CT Comparison.pdf

[wrxhoon1]

Good choice not to say there is anything wrong with Yamaha. Either engine would serve you well of course the 70 would go slightly better and I always like to power my boats with the max rated HP.  but that's just me.

For the record I prefer Mercs but I have a 250 Yam on my boat.

I would definitely use the Flo Torq 2 hub kit . 

Some facts:

The Merc you have there is  the same engine as the Yamaha 60 hp. Your Merc is made by Yamaha. I don't know if they use the same gearbox. .

dunc333

The Yamaha 70 Hp is sort of the same as the 60 hp Yam but not quite the same, they are the same displacement.. If you notice the weights are different due to the fact that 70 hp has a different head with 16 valves hence the extra weight.

The 60 Yam has 8 valves same as Merc 60 ( they are the same engine) with different skin if you like. 

 

[zmk1962]

On 7/17/2020 at 4:43 PM, Scienceman said:

After sitting on the fence and even asking my wife to make the decision for me (risky I know 😉) I decided to go with the Mercury 60CT. Reasoning:

- dealer is 5 min away Vs 1 hour

- was convinced the power (torque) was very close between the two motors(see attached graph, even though this is a Mercury doc I believe the graphs look authentic) with the 60CT having as good or slightly better hole-shot but expecting to drop ~5 km/h at WOT.

- No other major technology differences between them; same displacement, both injected, same gearing, same weight etc

- $1000 cheaper 

- dealer found the OEM 15P prop didnt get close enough to 6000 rpm WOT and offered to upgrade to a 14P SS prop for cost price (extra $250), retails for >$800. Read that this can reduce slip from ~25% to ~10% but if you hit a solid object it can damage gear case etc. Decided to go with it. 

Shake down cruise on the weekend. Confirmed hole-shot is acceptable and only slightly slower than the old 70 2st. Very smooth, flat power band up with plenty of torque across the rev range. 5800 rpm WOT at 50km/h as expected. The boat is a 2000 Bay Ranger Caprice 475 so hardly a performance hull and becomes skittish at high speeds and crashes rather than glides over waves. 3500rpm -  4500rpm = 30km/h - 40km/h very sweet running, so quiet.  Don't need the fastest hole-shot or the fastest top speed as my use is 60% estuary: 20% open bay: 20% near off-shore, fishing only, no skiing or towing. Very little opportunity to run close to WOT and most boating is ~35 km/h, except for very short periods.

Two negatives to be worked on, 1) Prop chatter at idle. Reported to dealer who said to see if it settles down. Read that it can be common on all makes of small 4 st engines, more often with SS props. Mercury have a Flo Torque kit which can help but is expensive. Will be pushing dealer to fit as not happy with the noise/shaking. 2) Throttle leaver has to be moved a long way before engages with engine. Then the distance travelled for the full rev range is very small so can be difficult to adjust for fine rpm control. Also difficult to quickly accelerate without going WOT. Hoping this can be adjusted but not confident. 

Overall level of satisfaction: 80%. Got pretty much what I expected and happy with the result. 

F70 Vs 60 CT Comparison.pdf 1.1 MB · 4 downloads

Hey @Scienceman, glad you got the performance you were after. Now to fine tune the last 20% satisfaction level.

1) Seems to me if the dealer knew about prop chatter - he should have been very proactive in advising you what you need to avoid it upfront. Stick to your guns on this one. Also, FIW I had my motor fitted with a Mercury Enertia (S/S) prop ... other sites have reported this style of prop helps eliminate chatter in a 4cyl 4str - Honda example: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/prop-chatter-in-4-stroke-outboards_topic114807.html

2) The throttle linkage issue sounds like an adjustment issue - Mercury also has several types of control boxes - have the dealer confirm he installed the one recommended for your motor? All my motors have had relatively smooth progression on throttle - there should be nothing unusual about this 60HP Merc? 

BTW, I've sent you a PM as well.

Cheers Zoran

[Scienceman]

Thanks for the info on prop chatter fixes and throttle options, Zoran. Knowledge is power and I am expecting these should be able to be resolved.