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Boat inspection in Fairfield


kanTec

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37 minutes ago, JonD said:

Simple thing to do is ask a few outboard mechanics

I asked Huey from Huett Marine, Andrew from Blakes Marine, Chris from Hunts Marine and John from Sydney Power Sports and they all said Etec for the win. Maybe its because they all sell Etecs and the wouldn't recommend anything they didn't sell.

My unbias opinion

Buying New: Buy a 4 stroke

Buying Almost new 3yrs or less, buy a 4 stroke, purely because BRP has pulled out of the market, but if I found the perfect boat and it had a Etec on it, it would not stop me from buying it.

Buying 2nd hand 4yrs to 6yrs, buy the engine which has been serviced regularly with documentation and performs well on a test run, I would limit it to 4 strokes and Etecs.

Buying over 6yrs old, buy the engine which has been serviced regularly with documentation, don't fall for the I have a mate who is a marine mechanic, if so then they should have the part receipts.

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Hi,

In the 1980's I had johnson 2 strokes. In fact I had three on differnt boats all with johnsons You couldn't kill these great motors. 2020 you move with the times. Four stroke is the go.

Cheers.

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22 hours ago, Madwave said:

. Btw @wrxhoon1 I don’t really mix the oil on my etec it has its own reservoir inside that i fill up. 

I know you don't mix the oil in the petrol tank. The engine injects oil that mixes with the petrol in the crankcase to lubricate bearings and pistons. Oil injection has been around for decades now. I had an oil injected 220 Yamaha back in early 1980's.

Even direct injection two strokes have been around a long time now. The invention was by accident back in the 70's  . It was Ralph Sarich that invented his so called orbital engine design, well that didn't work but the actual induction system did. He tried to convince car manufacturers to adopt it and failed but some marine engine manufacturers took it on .

By the way there is nothing wrong with Etec, Merc Opti, etc... They are comparable in fuel consumption with modern 4 strokes and make good power for their weight because they fire every second stroke instead of every 4th. Less moving parts than 4 strokes, much simpler and less maintenance, the only negatives much harder to comply with emissions, noisier than 4 strokes at low to mid range and not as smooth as 4 strokes . That's why nobody makes them now. Everything has a due by date.

If you do some research on orbital engine you will find about Ralph Sarich. By the way he went on to become a billionaire.

 

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KanTec

One issue you may face in the 2nd hand $15k - $25k priced boat market like the car market has actually risen during Covid-19, due in part to people accessing $10k from their super and others who now get $1500 per fortnight rather than their normal $200 per week from working 1 or 2 shifts.

I have 10 guys here at work who all accessed their super and bought either a new (2nd Hand) car or big TV & Game consoles. I am waiting to see if the ATO will do anything as them like me had little to no changes in their income or work shifts.

I personally think from Nov 2020 till Feb 2021 there will be the cliff drop for a lot of people who don't have $$$ reserves and it will be bargain time whether its Property or Cars / Boats. Especially if we don't get this 2nd wave under control asap.

So while its nice to have your own boat a short term Hire boat might be the go if desperate to hit the water this Summer and wait for the bargains.

Edited by jeffb5.8
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Hi,

In the 1980's I had johnson 2 strokes. In fact I had three on differnt boats all with johnsons You couldn't kill these great motors. 2020 you move with the times. Four stroke is the go.

Cheers.

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On 7/22/2020 at 10:04 AM, jeffb5.8 said:

I asked Huey from Huett Marine, Andrew from Blakes Marine, Chris from Hunts Marine and John from Sydney Power Sports and they all said Etec for the win. Maybe its because they all sell Etecs and the wouldn't recommend anything they didn't sell.

My unbias opinion

Buying New: Buy a 4 stroke

Buying Almost new 3yrs or less, buy a 4 stroke, purely because BRP has pulled out of the market, but if I found the perfect boat and it had a Etec on it, it would not stop me from buying it.

Buying 2nd hand 4yrs to 6yrs, buy the engine which has been serviced regularly with documentation and performs well on a test run, I would limit it to 4 strokes and Etecs.

Buying over 6yrs old, buy the engine which has been serviced regularly with documentation, don't fall for the I have a mate who is a marine mechanic, if so then they should have the part receipts.

So following @JonD advice. Everyone should buy an ETec?? ..unless he wants to retract his advice?? ....perhaps....of course we can see what his next reply will be...what he meant is "only take advice from mechanics who recommend Yamaha" 🤣 ie.... a mechanic who recommends anything other than a 4 stroke has no idea what hes talking about 🤣🤣

Edited by GoingFishing
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16 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

So following @JonD advice. Everyone should buy an ETec?? ..unless he wants to retract his advice?? ....perhaps....of course we can see what his next reply will be...what he meant is "only take advice from mechanics who recommend Yamaha" 🤣 ie.... a mechanic who recommends anything other than a 4 stroke has no idea what hes talking about 🤣🤣

As I stated, any mechanic not selling engines, just repairing. Not quite sure why you assume I would recommend Yamaha only, yes Ive owned two Yamaha f70's which both were sold after 2-3 yrs and around 1000hrs, simply because I decided to change boats at that time ( zodiac and formula) . Both of these never gave me a single issue but I wouldn't expect them to at such low hours either. I do know of comercial operators having up around 10,000hrs on theirs without problem to and will happily pass on their details for anyone interested. The mechanic I use is Yamaha trained but also recommends to stay away from the direct two stroke injection yamahas just like he does about etec and merc modern two strokes because of their issues. By the way he's a comercial fisherman and has one boat with a modern 4 stroke 115 and one with a 4 stroke Yam.

Our marine rescue vessel had twin verado's 250's but after just 6 months these were replaced by twin Suzuki's, not much point having a rescue boat with reliability issues. Working as a marine rescue volunteer you soon notice which engines are more commonly failing and needing a tow, even though these engines are a minority on the water. 

My local dealship were selling merc, Suzuki and etec but dropped etec due to the company failing to honour their warranties. Maritime here locally soon dropped etec because of reliability issues, as did water police and other government agencies. It's funny how everyone who has an etec loves them untill they reach 500-750hrs which to me this isn't many hours for such a big financial investment. 

As for the comments on etec for the win, well funny enough a spearfishing buddy from Sydney was at a point where he either had to spend $7000 on repairs to his or buy something new. Everyone in the club advised him to go for the Merc 115 or Yamaha 130. He got talked into another etec by the salesman ( which was considerably cheaper ) . In his first three trips he's been towed twice and not happy. I fished on a certain celebrities boats from Groote, each of the boats totalling around 8 vessels were powered by the wonderful white 2 smokes. According to the people servicing them, a max of 500hrs from gearboxes and 750 from powerheads before replacement.

I fully understand people likeing and recommending what they own and yes especially if they haven't had any problems so far. I would much rather introduce anyone to people who have had a long list of problems with something than talk about it on a public forum. Let's face it, if something is so good why would they close the doors and stop making them.

 

 

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It’s not a mystery two strokes are gone been on the outer for years too much pollution 

just run your two stroke in a container and check out the oil ring around the container  and in the water. Yes injection improved the pollution but will never eliminate the problem. Two strokes are the best light and powerful will destroy a four stroke on capacity four strokes typically require double the capacity to produce the same power and torque. Reducing oil lubrication improved the emissions but reduced engine life common knowledge don’t let the Americans fool you if this was realistic the Japanese manufactures would have perfected this, look  at dirt bikes two strokes used to rule now four strokes dominate the same in GP bikes How many two stroke cars do you see, Modern materials and technology has changed this however modern four strokes still require major maintenance to achieve the same performance luckily outboard motors only rev to around 6000 rpm giving a longer life span. Sad to see good by blue smokes.

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There would still be a market for carby 2 strokes if the government hadn't banned them. They were a good choice for tinnies and entry level boating with their low weight/ good power to weight ratio as well as for repowering old boats. Also the price of new motors is getting out of hand. I was quoted nearly 15K fitted for a 90 hp 4 stroke and it may not have performed well on my old fiberglass boat. I ended a getting a hardy used carby 2 stroke for 5K

As to new motors I wonder what the relative failure rates really are? If you look at some of the product review sites there are numerous reviews of people having a terrible time with their 4 strokes due to a variety of mechanical and electrical problems. Also terminal corrosion problems on motors that weren't that old. 

And I have heard a lot of good things about the Optimax from mechanics and owners - 'sound as the pound' etc. 

 

 

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Not too sure how this turned into another how good MY motor is thread, but it has, and as usual, there is a lot of emotion and a lot of rubbish posted, especially about 2 stroke operation and EFI/DFI and why there's none in production now.

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6 hours ago, noelm said:

Not too sure how this turned into another how good MY motor is thread, but it has, and as usual, there is a lot of emotion and a lot of rubbish posted, especially about 2 stroke operation and EFI/DFI and why there's none in production now.

Well it is a boating thread and given the financial and safety implications of choosing a new motor why would you think it's not a worthy topic? I don't about 'emotion' and 'garbage' either. Unless you have some information I haven't seen no one knows the relative failure rate of DI 2 strokes vs 4 strokes or why Etec's and Opti's have ceased production. The performance characteristics are more clear cut however.

Edited by kingfishbig
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17 minutes ago, noelm said:

Not too sure how this turned into another how good MY motor is thread, but it has, and as usual, there is a lot of emotion and a lot of rubbish posted, especially about 2 stroke operation and EFI/DFI and why there's none in production now.

In all the years I have managed this forum there is ALWAYS an argument about motors especially when etec is mentioned.

It is a bit like the Holden vs Ford discussions.

@kanTec have you gained any answers here? I am ready to close this post.

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37 minutes ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

In all the years I have managed this forum there is ALWAYS an argument about motors especially when etec is mentioned.

It is a bit like the Holden vs Ford discussions.

@kanTec have you gained any answers here? I am ready to close this post.

Fords are obviously better Donna 🤣

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1 hour ago, Welster said:

Fords are obviously better Donna 🤣

It's a shame they are not locally made now. My last 3 cars have been Falcons. Actually they are very good for towing and less costly to buy and maintain than a 4wd. 

But it's not a very good analogy as 4s vs 2s is a matter of very different technologies. 

Edited by kingfishbig
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If I get an hour or so later, I will do a multi part post about how the various operating principals work, nothing to do with what's best or anything else, I am in the middle of a laundry reno at the moment.

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8 hours ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

In all the years I have managed this forum there is ALWAYS an argument about motors especially when etec is mentioned.

It is a bit like the Holden vs Ford discussions.

@kanTec have you gained any answers here? I am ready to close this post.

Yes got good answers and the 2s vs 4s argument was definitely beneficial. Lots to learn.

Please feel free to close the thread

Thanks to all who shared their knowledge 

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15 minutes ago, kanTec said:

Yes got good answers and the 2s vs 4s argument was definitely beneficial. Lots to learn.

Please feel free to close the thread

Thanks to all who shared their knowledge 

At the end of the day mate its great to have some knowledge when going into these things but its also about what you can afford to!

 

I have no issues with my Mercury 25Hp 2 stroke with excessive smoke or reliability which is 10 years old now but not so many hours.

 

Easy to work on & service it myself.

 

Good luck when the decision comes but if you can take someone that has some knowledge then it could save you some hurt :thumbup: 

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35 minutes ago, motiondave said:

@kingfishbig , im running an AU series 2 , 6 cyl, as my main ride, him old, him rough, but him got oodles of power under foot to tow the boat :D

 

Yes I had a AU2 as well. I traded it in for an FG XR6. I didn't get the turbo as I want to keep my drivers licence.

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4 hours ago, kanTec said:

Any thoughts fellas ? 

Get it inspected 😜

I have fished out if a later model with a 150 inboard, did ok although more of a family cruise about than a dedicated fishing boat but hey that's what you might be looking for?

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All I can say is that I’m glad I wasn’t a member of a fishing/boating forum when there were only two strokes.  With 80% of members complaining post after post.  

Imagine, bloody two strokes motor, Smokey, cost way to much to run, etc, etc, etc.

Stop bloody whinging, they were part of history which we all went through.  Motors have evolved, for better or worse who knows.

I for one still run a two stroke (115ph Johnson Oceanpro) and love it.  Not missed a beat.  It may be a little Smokey at times, and yes a little thirsty compared to today’s technology, but who really cares.  I love boating and have no reason to spend tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade when I’m happy with the performance I already have at my disposal 
 

And to think this criticism of motors and people started from a forum member requesting information about a boat inspection in Sydney

Edited by shakey55
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