phishfinger Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Hi guys, I picked up this boat a couple of days ago & the motor seemed ok the guy showed me it running so I thought it was fine. Today I took her down to the ramp at port kembla & put her in the water to test her out, i sat there for about an hr cranking her over on & off but it would crank & crank with no indication she wanted to start at all (no splutter nothing). I draged her back home again & noticed alot of oil down the inside of the motor but have no idea where its coming from. I did let it sit for a few hrs & went to try kick it over & she started 1st click but with alot of smoke & I also saw the thick black oil oozing down the back more & seemed worse when i gave it a few more rev's. Its a 115hp suki 2stroke oil injected an early 90 model I believe. Any ideas or help would be much appreciated guys as I'm out of ideas Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelm Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Best guess is your starting technique is not right, and you simply flooded it, can you describe what you do to start it, in detail, in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishfinger Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 I opened the fuel vents on both tanks, lowered the motor all the way down, squeezed the bulb around 4 or 5 times till it was hard then pushed the choke lever all the way up on the controller & gave it a kick. i also tryed with the lever all the way down also. Does all that oil come from flooding the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankS Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 We can only guess here as we don't know what exactly you OR the previous owner has done. What sort of oil have you got in the reservoir, did you add oil to the fuel as well ? . Should use tct3 oil. Sounds to me like there is simply too much oil in the system. Get some start you bastard or similar and squirt it into the carbs and kick it over and see what happens then. but don't run it for long if it starts. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelm Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 OK, not too sure about your "choke lever" I assume you mean the fast idle/warm up lever? How is the proper choke activated? pushing the key in or a seperate switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Did you turn kill switch off? cheers Zoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishfinger Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 Its oil injected so it has its own oil reservoir and mixes it itself (yes i did mean the warm up lever) sorry. no the kill switch was on Zoran, also i touched nothing when i got home & the motor started after leaving it a few hours but with alot of smoke. I have no idea what oil is in the motor either Frank but i will clean it all down tomorrow & see what happens. thanks for the replies guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun2fish Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Hey mate make sure choke working could be stuck on may be worth getting clean petrol if you don't no how old it is new plugs wouldn't hurt either as well as cleaning replacing filter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey55 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 I had a similar problem with My 1999 115 hp Johnson Oceanpro when I first bought it. My guess is that you flooded it and by leaving it for a while the excess fuel has evaporated and left the excess oil behind in the carbies Having that excess fuel gone you were able to start motor and the smoke is from the excess oil in carbies The oil on the leg you describe is just unburnt fuel/oil running out. Nothing to be worried about. My thought is that once you get the starting procedure down pat you will be right. Another tip - if you intend not using motor for months at a time, make sure you start the motor from time to time or if left for long time you will have the same problem starting (fuel in carbies evaporated and excess oil left there). Good luck phisfinger 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishfinger Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 I'll clean it all down & give her a good run today and see how it goes. What is a good starting procedure as I am obviously doing it wrong, should i only be squeezing the bulb after trying to kick it over a few times if needed? or should i not be using throttle? etc. this is my first boat so still many more novice mistakes to make I guess haha thanks for all the advice guys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonywardle Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Well, for mine if Its been running recently, I can just turn the key and away it goes. Othertimes I need to push the key in. I don't very often use the fast idle leaver. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelm Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Being an older motor, make sure your choke works, you didn't say whether it's a push the key in, or if it has a seperate switch (or if it has an automatic choke setup) procedure for a manual choke setup, prime bulb until hard, lift warm up lever well up, activate choke, turn key to start while still using choke, motor should start, release choke and move warm up lever to lower idle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonywardle Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 pick yourself up a portable battery jump starter too. Good to have it on board, and they can just about fit in your pocket these days. Pretty soon, you want to look at the dual battery option and we can help with that too. Its all in the search box! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishfinger Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 Alright guys i have an update, I took the boat into the shop today & end result is i need a new motor 😓 the bottom cylinder has water getting inside so wont fire & its only running on 3 cylinders with the mechanic said it's almost impossible to get parts for. so i brought quite an experience anchor it seems.... thanks for all the help & advice not sure what im going to do now though unfortunately 😥 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Any recourse with the previous owner ? You mentioned it was a very recent purchase. Cheers Zoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishfinger Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 35 minutes ago, zmk1962 said: Any recourse with the previous owner ? You mentioned it was a very recent purchase. Cheers Zoran Yeah i gave him a call for a chat letting him know what ive found with the boat and he didnt want to hear about it just making excuses and pretty much said its my problem. I told him I wanted my money back or even the cost of a replacement 2nd hand moter he just laughed it of and said yeah thats not gonna happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 (edited) May just be me, but with those replies I get the feeling he knew about it ... Did he give you a service history or any paper work? Did he make any representations in writing that the motor was good etc. Even then, if its a private sale, I think you are up for a civil suit to try and claim any compensation ... personally I don't think there is much you can do. Paying a mechanic to check a 2nd hand motor before you put money down is the way to go - a cylinder pressure test would tell a fair bit about the state of the motor and would have picked up the problem you have found. I know experience can be a tough teacher, but if everything else is good, maybe sell the current motor for parts and repower and enjoy the boat. I'm saying that without knowing how much you paid for the whole rig and hoping that with a repower (new or 2nd hand) you will not over capitalise. But anything that takes a 115hp on the back is a pretty decent size rig. Others on the site have purchased rigs and ended up spending more than they anticipated or planned on to get them to scratch - but now are pretty happy boaties. Cheers Zoran Edited September 28, 2020 by zmk1962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishfinger Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, zmk1962 said: May just be me, but with those replies I get the feeling he knew about it ... Did he give you a service history or any paper work? Did he make any representations in writing that the motor was good etc. Even then, if its a private sale, I think you are up for a civil suit to try and claim any compensation ... personally I don't think there is much you can do. Paying a mechanic to check a 2nd hand motor before you put money down is the way to go - a cylinder pressure test would tell a fair bit about the state of the motor and would have picked up the problem you have found. I know experience can be a tough teacher, but if everything else is good, maybe sell the current motor for parts and repower and enjoy the boat. I'm saying that without knowing how much you paid for the whole rig and hoping that with a repower (new or 2nd hand) you will not over capitalise. But anything that takes a 115hp on the back is a pretty decent size rig. Others on the site have purchased rigs and ended up spending more than they anticipated or planned on to get them to scratch - but now are pretty happy boaties. Cheers Zoran Yeah its definitely a l8ve & learn situation & will definitely be having a mechanic check done before repowering the boat, funny enough though the mechanic did check compression while i was there & each cylinder was over 120 psi & looking good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmk1962 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, phishfinger said: the mechanic did check compression while i was there & each cylinder was over 120 psi & looking good Interesting .... so did the mech say how the water is getting in the lower cylinder? Where is the head compromised for water to get in, without leaking pressure? Do you have a water separation fuel filter installed between the tank and motor? Have you checked if its full of water? Have you checked for water in fuel? Water in carbie? I also came across this reading engine posts and noted it down in my files: "check your oil tank.... 40 hp recently had water in bottom cylinder it came from the cap on the cowl leaking water into the oil tank and from there into crankcase, in particular the bottom cylinder" I wouldn't give up on the motor you have just yet. Something is not adding up. Cheers Zoran Edited September 28, 2020 by zmk1962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelm Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 An old two stroke is pretty simple, unless the block itself is shot, replacing a head gasket, or even a second hand head is not a difficult job, broken bolts can be an issue, but you never know unless you give it a go, not 100% sure water in one cylinder is going to cause a no start condition. Are you reasonably handy with basic tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunc333 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 sorry to hear mate .im guessing a water gallery has comprimised the block in the head .dont throw out yet remove head and see what you can see if not worth fixing look at parting it out .ie trim and tilt worth $300 to $500. (leg)gear box $500 ,fly wheel $50 elecs $100 or fleabay the whole motor if not mechanically minded cheers dunc333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun2fish Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 May be as simple as a head gasket if you decide to take head off spray bolts with a penetrating oil for a few days before you try anything it's not that hard to do if you can use basic tools another motor is expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishfinger Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 I honestly have no idea what im doing to even start to pull the motor apart. He did say he thinks a head gasket and reckoned they dont make gaskets for that old motor anymore & wouldn't be able to get one. there is a fuel filter on the side which looks really clean with no water in the fuel, also the other cylinders are firing fine he took the caps off the soarkplugs one by one checking them while running & only the bottom one made no difference yet it was getting plenty of spark. he even put a new plug in just to make sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelm Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 A head gasket would still be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza6411 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Surely a gasket can still be made from Other materials??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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