Lithium batteries and trolling motors

[psira]

Hello Raiders

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations for lithium batteries? Just bought a 80 LB 24V Minn Kota for my Quintrex 5.6 tinnie and trying to avoid the space/weight of two 130 AH AGM's.  When I finally get to have a fish I will be spot locking in the high current areas of Brizzy Waters and the Hawkesbury. Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated. as there have been several warnings and bad reviews on the Net about many of the offerings both cheap and more expensive for Li Fe PO4's.

Thanks in advance. And whilst I have never had anything really worthwhile to contribute, I have certainly leaned a lot from knowledgeable members on this site! 

 

[kingie chaser]

I have no 1st hand experience with them but I know they are now being used extensively in the 4x4 & camper community.

I have been warned of the cheap offering but the word is that some of the better brands are-

Enerdrive

Itech world

 

I have been told to steer clear of VoltaX from Outbax even though they seem to be the cheapest on the market.

 

As usual if you want quality you have to pay for the privilege. 

 

If you want to look into in more depth then I'd be looking on the 4x4 forums.

[grantos]

In my research the cheaper ones dont allow you to combine for 24v.

Was looking at the same options as you and ended up going AGM and accepting the weight trade off. I also made it more confusing as this will be the 3rd bank (start / house / Troll) all charging off one alternator.

[psira]

Thanks Kingie Chaser

Will investigate your suggestions for those two. You're right. There's a lot on 4x4 forums but I was hoping to hear from someone actually using the LiFePO4 for TM's. Seems the campers have somewhat different requirements and charging systems as they have a more continual usage.  Minn Kota have also issued some cautions re the Li's because of their constant (and slightly higher) voltages that they say can cause overheating of the motor on "prolonged use". They say that their motors have been designed to accommodate the falling voltage of lead acid types that occurs naturally as the TM is being used. But given that caution, they do say you can use a Li battery. I like the technoilogy, the degree of discharge down to 90% compared to AGM's 50%, the light weight  and the longevity etc. The price variations are enormous and it seems the best brands are in the US and not available here or if here, at enormous extra cost. Anyway, more reading I think before taking the plunge. Thanks again.

[psira]

Yes Grantos, it is truly confusing.. May end up doing the same as you. There was an article I read from a yachtie who builds his own Li banks from the cells up, that despite all the advantages of Li batteries over Lead Acid, casual use such as once every couple of weeks or so (if I'm lucky) doesn't pay and to stick with AGM as you did because it doesn't justify current costs of good Li batteries. Some of the tests that have been done to check on  the stated specs of some Li brands  have been scary.

Cheers

psira

[kingie chaser]

1 hour ago, psira said:

I like the technoilogy, the degree of discharge down to 90% compared to AGM's 50%, the light weight  and the longevity etc. The price variations are enormous and it seems the best brands are in the US and not available here or if here, at enormous extra cost. Anyway, more reading I think before taking the plunge. Thanks again.

Absolutely, 1/3 the weight of a lead acid/AGM makes them more attractive alone but the more useable amount of discharge is just as good so together they are a much better solution & will get better & cheaper as time goes on.

 

The next issue would be charging, if you wanted to set it up to charge from your boat motors alternator then you would have to have a DC-DC charger designed for Lifepo4's.

Of course charging at home by 240V would be probably be much easier & cheaper.

 

Good luck with your quest.

[whiskey299]

FPV have just released lithium batteries for the trolling motor. There is a great in depth review available on them and also a competition to win the package if you are lucky.

 

 

[XD351]

I broke into a sweat when I looked up 24v lithium battery -allspark 120ah -$2500 weighs 30kg or so .

Edited June 21, 2021 by XD351

[onearmedfisho]

2 hours ago, XD351 said:

I broke into a sweat when I looked up 24v lithium battery -allspark 120ah -$2500 weighs 30kg or so .

yeah id stick with running 2 x 105AH AGM's as i do now. No need to go 130AH's and at the end of the day its only an extra 30kgs or so compared to the above. 

[psira]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the responses. Seems not too many Raiders going down the Li track. FYI I kept lookinjg and as Kingie Chaser suggested checked out a few 4 x4 sites There were some great recommendation there after 5 years using the SolarKing range with 12V 100 AH going for above $600 ea ("discounted") which seems to be about the mid price point for Li. The specs say can connect parallel or series but just to check this and the warranty of 3-5 years I rang the seller in WA. They confirmed that they would be good for the 24V MK, marine environment, dedicated Victron charger etc and said they would send me a copy of the warranty (which I asked for as some are full of nonsensical "outs"). While waiting for this to be emailed I found another seller in Melbourne (quicker delivery to the Coast) and called him. We had a chat and THEN he told me he would  not recommend connecting them in series!!! "What about the specs?" He said there were previous instances that they did not function properly in series because the internal BMS (battery management system) played up!  An honest guy who put aside the $1,200 + sale! 

I now feel I have had enough and like Grantos and OneAF said, will go a couple of (heavier) AGM's (68 kg) which have to be sited on one side of this boat and before ordering I will check whether this will affect the trim. My mate has this sytem for the same 24V MK and has had no problem with all day on and off, trolling, spot locking in the Brissy currents etc.

Sorry for the long post but it's to warn others that despite what it says in the specs, it ain't necessarily so!

[kingie chaser]

1 hour ago, psira said:

Hi Guys

Thanks for the responses. Seems not too many Raiders going down the Li track. FYI I kept lookinjg and as Kingie Chaser suggested checked out a few 4 x4 sites There were some great recommendation there after 5 years using the SolarKing range with 12V 100 AH going for above $600 ea ("discounted") which seems to be about the mid price point for Li. The specs say can connect parallel or series but just to check this and the warranty of 3-5 years I rang the seller in WA. They confirmed that they would be good for the 24V MK, marine environment, dedicated Victron charger etc and said they would send me a copy of the warranty (which I asked for as some are full of nonsensical "outs"). While waiting for this to be emailed I found another seller in Melbourne (quicker delivery to the Coast) and called him. We had a chat and THEN he told me he would  not recommend connecting them in series!!! "What about the specs?" He said there were previous instances that they did not function properly in series because the internal BMS (battery management system) played up!  An honest guy who put aside the $1,200 + sale! 

I now feel I have had enough and like Grantos and OneAF said, will go a couple of (heavier) AGM's (68 kg) which have to be sited on one side of this boat and before ordering I will check whether this will affect the trim. My mate has this sytem for the same 24V MK and has had no problem with all day on and off, trolling, spot locking in the Brissy currents etc.

Sorry for the long post but it's to warn others that despite what it says in the specs, it ain't necessarily so!

The products are out there, companies do build 24V Li banks, they just cost a lot of money & as you found out not as easy as L/Acid or AGM to connect in series.

https://www.springers.com.au/shop/product/rpl24-200-revolution-lifepo4-24v-200ah-battery-11038

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LifePo4-Li-ion-Phosphate-200Ah-4-8KWh-Cells-24-Volt-Power-Bank-Battery-Pack-Kit-/402511316708?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249

 

Good to hear you got some honest advice from the retailer though you didn't get the outcome you wanted.

Edited June 21, 2021 by kingie chaser

[whiskey299]

18 hours ago, psira said:

Hi Guys

Thanks for the responses. Seems not too many Raiders going down the Li track. FYI I kept lookinjg and as Kingie Chaser suggested checked out a few 4 x4 sites There were some great recommendation there after 5 years using the SolarKing range with 12V 100 AH going for above $600 ea ("discounted") which seems to be about the mid price point for Li. The specs say can connect parallel or series but just to check this and the warranty of 3-5 years I rang the seller in WA. They confirmed that they would be good for the 24V MK, marine environment, dedicated Victron charger etc and said they would send me a copy of the warranty (which I asked for as some are full of nonsensical "outs"). While waiting for this to be emailed I found another seller in Melbourne (quicker delivery to the Coast) and called him. We had a chat and THEN he told me he would  not recommend connecting them in series!!! "What about the specs?" He said there were previous instances that they did not function properly in series because the internal BMS (battery management system) played up!  An honest guy who put aside the $1,200 + sale! 

I now feel I have had enough and like Grantos and OneAF said, will go a couple of (heavier) AGM's (68 kg) which have to be sited on one side of this boat and before ordering I will check whether this will affect the trim. My mate has this sytem for the same 24V MK and has had no problem with all day on and off, trolling, spot locking in the Brissy currents etc.

Sorry for the long post but it's to warn others that despite what it says in the specs, it ain't necessarily so!

Did you watch the FPV lithium review by Byron Tea Hill?

[onearmedfisho]

20 hours ago, psira said:

Hi Guys

Thanks for the responses. Seems not too many Raiders going down the Li track. FYI I kept lookinjg and as Kingie Chaser suggested checked out a few 4 x4 sites There were some great recommendation there after 5 years using the SolarKing range with 12V 100 AH going for above $600 ea ("discounted") which seems to be about the mid price point for Li. The specs say can connect parallel or series but just to check this and the warranty of 3-5 years I rang the seller in WA. They confirmed that they would be good for the 24V MK, marine environment, dedicated Victron charger etc and said they would send me a copy of the warranty (which I asked for as some are full of nonsensical "outs"). While waiting for this to be emailed I found another seller in Melbourne (quicker delivery to the Coast) and called him. We had a chat and THEN he told me he would  not recommend connecting them in series!!! "What about the specs?" He said there were previous instances that they did not function properly in series because the internal BMS (battery management system) played up!  An honest guy who put aside the $1,200 + sale! 

I now feel I have had enough and like Grantos and OneAF said, will go a couple of (heavier) AGM's (68 kg) which have to be sited on one side of this boat and before ordering I will check whether this will affect the trim. My mate has this sytem for the same 24V MK and has had no problem with all day on and off, trolling, spot locking in the Brissy currents etc.

Sorry for the long post but it's to warn others that despite what it says in the specs, it ain't necessarily so!

go with 105AH's mate, I run 2 with my 80lb motor guide and after camping for a week and slightly longer and using it a lot, ive never had them below 40%

[martymonsta]

I have just recently bought an 80lb Motorguide and have bought this 50AH battery which I'll be charging at home after each session. If I find it's not big enough may get another 50AH for a parallel 24v set up or opt for a larger 100AH battery for $1,200.

 

Prishda 24v 50AH