Nearly about to give up on lure fishing

[Denisfisho]

First off sorry if the post comes off as negative but I've been trying lure fishing soft plastics, hard body (all depths), different jig heads, different locations (parra river,lake Illawarra, lake tuggerah) and I haven't had a catch of anything at all in like 20 hours worth of fishing the past month.

I know nobody can tell me what's wrong without watching me fish but is fishing meant to be this hard ? Lake Illawarra I've gone twice in the morning 6am in good spots and nothing.

First few times I can just enjoy the experience but now it's just frustrating because I'm questioning if legal size fish even live in these lakes in large enough numbers for rec lure fishing.

Is it because summer hasn't fired up yet? Are these lakes fished out because they're driving distance from Sydney?

Are there any known beginner mistakes that people make that I might be doing and not know of.

Just need any sort of feedback because fishing has just become more anxiety inducing than relaxing.

[kingie chaser]

Fishing artificials imo is more rewarding than fishing with bait but it is harder as your essentially tricking the fish.

Your right we can't tell what's going on & why you aren't catching fish without going into specifics.

Right leader size, right Jighead weight, right colour SP's, right technique, right locations all matters.

Can you give more detailed info, what your chasing, what your using tackle wise, boat or shore based.

 

We can't give feedback without some info supplied!

Edited November 1, 2021 by kingie chaser

[slothparade]

Trust me don't give up. I know the feeling, I went 4 years without getting a fish on lure, I spent 100s on lures, watched that many videos. If you don't have a line in the water your never going to get one. 

Just dont give up, your will eventually get one 

[Denisfisho]

1 hour ago, kingie chaser said:

Fishing artificials imonis more rewarding than fishing with bait but it is harder as your essentially tricking the fish.

Your right we can't tell what's going on & why you aren't catching fish without going into specifics.

Right leader size, right Jighead weight, right colour SP's, right technique, right locations all matters.

Can you give more detailed info, what your chasing, what your using tackle wise, boat or shore based.

 

We can't give feedback without some info supplied!

Hey mate.

I use zman plastics (tried the usual grubs and minnows so forth) using the standard 1/4 1/8 to 1/12 etc jigheads and also tried weedless hooks of different sizes.

I use about a 1m leader and my sp colours are the usual fan favourites like motor oil.

I have been using zman grubs mainly chasing flathead but I've thrown lines near structure hoping for bream too. Infact I have spotted bream but only tiny ones.

My technique is just to cast (I do get good distance because a helpful tackle shop set me up with a good rod and reel) and then do the double flicks. 

Locations are known performers because I've geolocated from YouTube, watched other fishers and read through forums etc.

Im thinking either my times aren't right or I'm wasting time casting too much in the same spot and not moving enough or it's just not hot enough or maybe since they're spots within Sydney its just slim pickings.

All shore based. I went boat fishing yesterday with some mates who turned out they just wanted to drink and party which isn't the best for catching fish hah.

[Denisfisho]

2 hours ago, motiondave said:

I fish with lures and I also put out a bait line for good measure, I use plastics grubs on various size jighead and some rattly divers. I'd suggest join me for a midday run on a Saturday in my boat for some practice. I fish Parra river, Lane cove, and some harbour, I cannot work a lure to save me but I still get fish.😁

 

2 hours ago, motiondave said:

 

Thanks mate. I've seen a few of your posts and we have fished the same spots, except you've caught fish lol.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Denisfisho
Typos

[XD351]

You may be working the lure too fast , bream like slow - very slow and subtle , flathead like slow to medium but if the lure isn’t hitting the bottom you will really limit your catch to the ones that are hungry enough to come up off the bottom . Bass like a little faster - always had better results if the lure broke the surface . With the double twitch on bream sometimes you have to pause for what seems like an eternity , and they can be anywhere in the water column depending what structure they are living around .

[kingie chaser]

8 hours ago, Denisfisho said:

Hey mate.

I use zman plastics (tried the usual grubs and minnows so forth) using the standard 1/4 1/8 to 1/12 etc jigheads and also tried weedless hooks of different sizes.

I use about a 1m leader and my sp colours are the usual fan favourites like motor oil.

I have been using zman grubs mainly chasing flathead but I've thrown lines near structure hoping for bream too. Infact I have spotted bream but only tiny ones.

My technique is just to cast (I do get good distance because a helpful tackle shop set me up with a good rod and reel) and then do the double flicks. 

Locations are known performers because I've geolocated from YouTube, watched other fishers and read through forums etc.

Im thinking either my times aren't right or I'm wasting time casting too much in the same spot and not moving enough or it's just not hot enough or maybe since they're spots within Sydney its just slim pickings.

All shore based. I went boat fishing yesterday with some mates who turned out they just wanted to drink and party which isn't the best for catching fish hah.

Sounds like your on the right path with the jigheads & plastics.

What line & leader strength are you using?

Looking at what your fishing for I would tend to be using 8lb main line & anywhere from 6lb to 10lb fluro leader

Rod line class??

Again looking at the areas your fishing I'd be using something like a 3-5lb rod.

As XD351 has said you need to think about what your trying to catch & fish the method for that species, you might catch another species but your mindset should be I am targeting flathead today so I will keep the SP on the bottom, give it a couple of quick pump ups, wind a little line in & watch the line for the SP to hit the bottom, then repeat.

 

Keep at it mate, once that first one comes the flood gates will open.

 

Good luck.

 

[dirvin21]

Without watching you, the main error I see is not putting the plastic on the jighead straight so it seims properly, in pressured waters this makes a huge difference 

Loop knots joining leader to lure also help

[JamoDamo]

If you want to catch fish on lures honestly just go for gulp, they smell like crap but fish love them!

Also i'd suggest going around a 6-8lb fluorocarbon leader of at least a rod length matched with a 1/12th or lower size jighead.

Try off sandflats, you'll catch flatties bream and whiting easily. Also to add to this go to somewhere close to the ocean, you'll find ocean going fish that will generally hit almost anything you throw at them. 

Further more gulp patterns that I find work extremely well include the gulp sandworm in 2" in camo or the bloody colour and the 2" baby shrimp in Camo. I've had heaps of success with these plastics. Also zman slim swimz in the 2.5" are one of my go to's the tail action is great and fish love to slam them especially flathead bloodworm, motor oil and midnight oil are amazing colours to use! 

FIsh as light as possible and vary your retrieves also start watching windsor bait and tackle on youtube his videos are chocca block full of info that is relevant to your situation, he will teach you subtle things that will get you onto more fish! 

Scent wise buy gulp rub on scent or s factor I've had a lot of success with both of them also give procure a go later on in saltwater yabby/nipper and shrimp for bream and flathead and mullet and bloody pilchard for flathead.

Use the double hop retrieve, small flicky hops, long pulls of the rod and all sorts of other retrieves that you can think of during your next session. Also don't be afraid to try new areas, its always good to expand your horizons!

Anything regarding plastics fishing feel free to contact me I'm always free and happy to help anyone that is keen to get into this awesome way to fish! 

Let us know how you go. 

Jamo

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by JamoDamo

[Rebel]

The above guys know what they are talking about. Fishing is patience and lots of it.

Cheers.

[Dee Why Jim]

Denisfisho - great question.  I have been reading the suggestions made by experienced folks fishraiders as I am also a beginner with SP.  I note the idea to use a slower retrieve with longer pauses.  The only two fish I have caught on plastics were both after a slower than "normal" retrieve.  Once I was fiddling with the drag and the second time I had a few hits and deliberately stopped to see what would happen.  Not a statistically significant data set but my two cents worth.  I also suspect that I have made the mistake (landbased) of staying too long in one spot as you have mentioned.  I am thinking that next few sessions I with try to have a few locations mapped out in advance so that I have a plan to start in location A and move to B,C and D.  Good luck!!

[XD351]

As dirvin21 said putting the plastic on straight is super important , could you post a few pics of a plastic you have fitted to a jig head ? 
Another creator of fantastic lure fishing videos on YouTube  is fellow Raider - Shroom . Another is FlickwithMick fishing . I would recommend you start with Flathead as Bream can be a real PIA some days and you know where Flathead will be - on the bottom around the edges of structure like weed beds ,rock walls/bars , drop offs and drains . You will also get them right up in the shallows on sand flats at high tide , I prefer a run out tide for the other spots especially where water is draining off a sand flat into deeper water . In this location I look for the drain - or the area that is funnelling the water off the sand flat as this will be the last place to dry up , the bait fish and prawns etc will by trying to stay away from the deeper water by staying in these drains until they have no choice but to leave and the flathead will be waiting for them right at that drop off . You need to fan your casts out so you cover as much ground as possible, if you think of it this way it might help you - if someone painted a giant clock face on the ground and you were standing in the middle facing the 12 O’clock position , first cast would be at 10 O’clock and then next at 11 O’clock and so on working your way around to the 2 O’clock position and back again . After that - if you are wading a small sand flat you would advance in the direction of 12 O’clock by half the distance of your cast and do it all again and on a big flat I would go forward then across , forward , across in the opposite direction and this way you cover the entire flat , if you are walking along the shore advance to your left or right by the same as the distance of your cast - so if you are doing a 30m cast walk along about 30m and start again and this will overlap your casts so you don’t leave gaps where fish could be sitting but not willing to move to grab a lure that isn’t as close as they would like . Another Great YouTube channel is sand flat fishing Australia-What Carl Attenborough doesn’t know about catching big Whiting and monster Flathead over the flats on a lure isn’t worth knowing - he ( along with Greg Reid ) have  now got me hooked on lure fishing on the beach for Flathead , bream and whiting !

[XD351]

Here is roughly what I mean when fanning your casts out- each red and blue line is a cast .

The  darker streaks on the sand  are drains .

Edited November 2, 2021 by XD351
Add info

[seasponge]

Here's some comments I made on a previous thread. Have a read. For me, my biggest mistake with SP's was not waiting long enough for them to reach the bottom - it can take a lot longer than you might think!

 

[TunaSickle]

My tip is watch every fishing show on tv and watch what they do. Jig size, lure size, line size, let it sink, whip, pull, wind fast, slow etc. Keep watching and you learn new little tricks. Just keep trying! You will get nothing for months and months then all of a sudden you will get one and then they keep coming! It took me months and months to ever get one. Now I pretty much only use lures and always get at least one. I think at first you are just too keen and not relaxed and wind and pull too hard. It can also be the spot. I never have any luck in the middle and only on the edges. Sometimes I wonder why I have a boat haha.

[DerekD]

Hi DF.

Sorry to hear you are struggling. I find the July to September months are a little harder work. There are good fish out there but you have to mix it up (e.g. blackfish on fly) and put in the time.

Can you please tell me the gear you are using? Rod length, line and lure rating, reel size, braid and leader strength?

I mentor several people each year. The first thing I do is ask them to cast. If the basics are not right then it makes everything else a little harder. We then go through the gear. Over the years I've had several people tell me that plastics don't work and then I check their gear out and realise they are handicapped from the start. When they have a go of my gear it is usually their first aha moment.

Once they are casting to the point I am happy with it (this has taken anywhere from a few minutes to several hours and in the case of complete beginners, several sessions - we do get them casting fairly quickly but it is the little tips and tricks which combine to get further distances out of the gear that takes a while) then we start going into the retrieves that can be used with various plastics.

What plastics and jig head combinations are you using?

To be continued.

Regards,

Derek

Edited November 2, 2021 by DerekD

[Denisfisho]

2 hours ago, DerekD said:

 

What plastics and jig head combinations are you using?

To be continued.

Regards,

Derek

Thanks all for the help and wealth of information.

My set-up is as follows :

shimano revolution ultra light 1 to 3kg rod

Shimano sienna 2500hg reel

15lb braid from memory

12lb flouro leader 

leader tied with a double uni knot (I know there's better knots but I'm new to tieing leader.

hooks are tied with a rapala knot.

Sp used are in attached picture. Most of it is zman but I also have gulps 4inch worms

Jigheads are a range of weights and can't remember their sizes (do I am for the hook to pop out half way through the sp? Usually mine are closer to the end of the body.

have used sp in:

Para River, botany Bay, Lake Illawarra and connecting creeks and lake tuggerah.

and yes I think barley does help with lure fishing as I noticed my mate who was bait fishing attracted a small school of tiny bream which were then chasing my sp too.

YouTubers like Windsor and shroomz actually sparked my interest to sp fish and I have been watching his videos and using some of their lures.

Any ideas let me know

Edited November 2, 2021 by Denisfisho

[Little_Flatty]

Hi Denis,

First observation is that your braid is way heavier than it needs to be. For your rod, I'd suggest 6lb. This will affect your casting performance. If you replace it, you can keep the braid for a heavier outfit later on.

I would probably go down in leader strength as well, maybe between 6-8lb. The 12lb is still handy to keep in your bag, as on occasion you might end up fishing environments where it's needed, such as around structure or if there are big flatties/kings around.

If you have a look at the jigheads (particularly the unpainted ones, they might have a weight written on them, normally as fractions of ounces. Come back to us on that one.

Apart from that, if @DerekD has got you under his wing, you're well on your way.

Mike

 

[DerekD]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:08 AM, Little_Flatty said:

First observation is that your braid is way heavier than it needs to be. For your rod, I'd suggest 6lb. This will affect your casting performance. If you replace it, you can keep the braid for a heavier outfit later on.

I would probably go down in leader strength as well, maybe between 6-8lb. The 12lb is still handy to keep in your bag, as on occasion you might end up fishing environments where it's needed, such as around structure or if there are big flatties/kings around.

@Little_Flatty You beat me to this one and very well said. Oh and thank you for your faith in me.

Alright @Denisfisho This is what I was expecting and we have potentially made a huge step into getting you on your way. Your rod and reel are fine. People have a tendency to go heavier than they need on their mainline and I suspect it is because they are putting down insurance against hooking the big one but how many of us do each time we go out. First thing is that most braids will overtest and potentially to double of the line rating (probably to factor in knot strength). In my case I use Berkley X5 in crystal and 4lb USA rating but on the box it also mentions it breaks at 6.4kg (14lb) under European guidelines. One of the demonstrations I use is to get students to gradually load it up (not shock load it) till they break it before cutting themselves - no one so far has done this. It is stronger than people realise. One of the people I mentored a while back was recently fishing the sandflats on a kayak with a 4" Holt prawn on 6lb mainline and 10lb leader and accidentally hooked a king which he landed - it went 93cm. if you learn how to fish the light gear and take your time you can land really good fish.

If you are using 15lb braid or thereabouts it is costing you casting distance and if you hook the big one then the load that braid can put on the guides is likely to damage them (I've seen this before).

I'd like to know what jig head weights you are using and how far you think you can cast them. On my gear with a 1/8oz I think I am getting around 20plus m and with a 1/4oz I think I am hitting 40m (need to actually measure this one day).

After we get some feedback from you the first step is to get down to your local tackle store and get them to respool that reel. I usually recommend PowerPro or Berkley X5 in the 4lb or a skinny 6lb like Daiwa J braid or Shimano Kairiki as I am familiar with them. Even if you use another braid (make sure it is woven rather than fused) have a feel of these to get an idea of the thickness we are looking for. The line should be spooled up so it finishes about 1mm shy of the lip which is why backing is needed and I suggest the local tackle store. The guy in the shop set up my Freedom day present to myself (Stradic 2500) with braid. He did an amazing job bringing it right up to the inner lip as per photo below - I would have gone a millimetre or so less.

To be continued.

Edited November 9, 2021 by DerekD

[DerekD]

Oh and we are not going to be using burley as your friend was doing. 😃  Part of the joy of lure fishing is fooling the fish. Part of doing well at this is covering ground as stated by several other people on this thread.

The quality of fish will also go up as you get better at it. More on this later.

Edited November 3, 2021 by DerekD

[XD351]

3 hours ago, DerekD said:

Oh and we are not going to be using burley. 😃  Part of the joy of lure fishing is fooling the fish. The quality of fish will also go up as you get better at it. More on this later.

I don’t understand the theory of burley when lure fishing ? One of the main advantages of lure fishing is mobility and if you are standing in one spot and never moving you may as well use bait ! For me it’s a dozen or so casts then move if nothing is doing - I might only move 30 or 40 metres , sometimes I will change lure and do it again but I would never spend enough time in one spot for burley to be effective . Scent on a lure is a different matter - always and re apply often !

[DerekD]

Soft plastics - firstly the straighter you can rig them the better. This can be a bit of a challenge with the zmans. They are durable but I find them a pain depending on the jig I am using. One of my mates suggested that a claim to fame signature I could use on my Fishraider posts is that "I once rigged a Zman plastic on straight".

While flathead are a little less fussy the better you can rig them the better they will swim and the better your chance of hooking up.

Ideally the soft plastic should look right when rigged. Having the hook coming out near the tail on a grub is not too much of an issue. However on the minnow/paddle tail/wriggle tail style lures I like it if it comes out at what would be the shoulder of a fish.

To give you an idea:

On 2 to 2.5 inch grubs I us Gamakatsu 211 ball head jigs in size #1 or #2 (the difference in the hooks is the gape size).

On 3 inch minnows I use the TT bullet head tournament style jig heads in size #1H. Weights in 1/8, 1/6 or 1/4oz depending on if I want hang time or casting distance.

On 4 inch minnows I use the TT bullet head tournament style jig heads in size #1/0H. Weight 1/4oz.

 

[kingie chaser]

On 11/2/2021 at 9:17 AM, JamoDamo said:

If you want to catch fish on lures honestly just go for gulp, they smell like crap but fish love them!

Also i'd suggest going around a 6-8lb fluorocarbon leader of at least a rod length matched with a 1/12th or lower size jighead.

Try off sandflats, you'll catch flatties bream and whiting easily. Also to add to this go to somewhere close to the ocean, you'll find ocean going fish that will generally hit almost anything you throw at them. 

Further more gulp patterns that I find work extremely well include the gulp sandworm in 2" in camo or the bloody colour and the 2" baby shrimp in Camo. I've had heaps of success with these plastics. Also zman slim swimz in the 2.5" are one of my go to's the tail action is great and fish love to slam them especially flathead bloodworm, motor oil and midnight oil are amazing colours to use! 

FIsh as light as possible and vary your retrieves also start watching windsor bait and tackle on youtube his videos are chocca block full of info that is relevant to your situation, he will teach you subtle things that will get you onto more fish! 

Scent wise buy gulp rub on scent or s factor I've had a lot of success with both of them also give procure a go later on in saltwater yabby/nipper and shrimp for bream and flathead and mullet and bloody pilchard for flathead.

Use the double hop retrieve, small flicky hops, long pulls of the rod and all sorts of other retrieves that you can think of during your next session. Also don't be afraid to try new areas, its always good to expand your horizons!

Anything regarding plastics fishing feel free to contact me I'm always free and happy to help anyone that is keen to get into this awesome way to fish! 

Let us know how you go. 

Jamo

 

I have fished with quite a few SP brands & styles in squidgies, Zman, Gulps, Storm etc & I have always had better success with the gulps(mostly shad's).

I went to the big snake store on Sunday to get some Hawkesbury prawns as I wanted to have some baited lines out while using 1 SP rod & while I was there I looked in the bargain bin & there was 4 packets of 3" gulp jerkshad's in satay & nuclear chicken for $5 a pack & I just swooped them up & said yes thanks 😁

I was fishing 3 rods, 2 with the prawns & one with the gulps, there were a lot of small fish around that usually smash bait but I had more hits on the gulps than the bait, even when it was just sitting on the bottom while I was drifting, & I have also caught a few fish on SP's while the rod is in the holder!

So the scent out of the packet I think is even a better attractant than many fresh/frozen baits imo.

Also caught the Trevally I kept on the Gulp which was a first for that species on SP ✌️

 

Totally agree with the others that Zman's can be a pain to get onto the jighead properly because they are so soft while the Gulps are so much stiffer & easier to put on & get straight.

[bluefin]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:13 AM, XD351 said:

You may be working the lure too fast , bream like slow - very slow and subtle , flathead like slow to medium but if the lure isn’t hitting the bottom you will really limit your catch to the ones that are hungry enough to come up off the bottom . Bass like a little faster - always had better results if the lure broke the surface . With the double twitch on bream sometimes you have to pause for what seems like an eternity , and they can be anywhere in the water column depending what structure they are living around .

Perfect XD. Slow down. Let it rest on the bottom. Use enough weight to let the lure slowly sink to the Bottom. I mainly use a slow lift retrieve , Or small double hops. Think , How would your SP swim in real life ? With Lures you are Hunting!!  Where would the fish Be ???? Move and search!  Structure, Undulating sand flats, Dips , Channels, drop offs even small ones !

  

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by bluefin

[bluefin]

Photos from Yesterday !