Nearly about to give up on lure fishing

[Scratchie]

@Denisfisho

An absolute wealth of knowledge has been offered in this post. Thank you to all the raiders for their input. 
 

My advise is pretty simple and is something that I tell every fisho that I teach or that comes out with me fishing. It is the key to my success with lures anyway 

JUST KEEP CASTING

cheers scratchie!!! 
 

[kingie chaser]

1 hour ago, Scratchie said:

JUST KEEP CASTING
 

Totally agree Jeff, I have kept saying to myself every year for the last 7 that I am going to catch a legal King in Botany bay this summer.......................still hasn't happened but I keep trying & also changing how I try all the time.

It will happen one day! 

 

But I will add, the fundamentals still have to be right otherwise you may as well be casting an anchor 😂 

[Denisfisho]

Hey all.

So I went to the local tackle shop to get the reel spooled with 6lb braid and I have to say I'm pretty upset because when the reel came back I could see it now has less braid than it did before I gave it to them.

I specifically asked the guy will the 150m braid be enough to spool it and he said yes then it took them 30minutes to do it because they said something was wrong with my reel then when they gave it back it's now got less braid on the reel.

I have posted a photo of it here. It doesn't look fully spooled to me. Should I go and complain tomorrow or is this okay? Really frustrated at the idea I'll need to spend more money again to spool it.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Denisfisho

[DerekD]

22 minutes ago, Denisfisho said:

Hey all.

So I went to the local tackle shop to get the reel spooled with 6lb braid and I have to say I'm pretty upset because when the reel came back I could see it now has less braid than it did before I gave it to them.

I specifically asked the guy will the 150m braid be enough to spool it and he said yes then it took them 30minutes to do it because they said something was wrong with my reel then when they gave it back it's now got less braid on the reel.

I have posted a photo of it here. It doesn't look fully spooled to me. Should I go and complain tomorrow or is this okay? Really frustrated at the idea I'll need to spend more money again to spool it.

Technically it is probably not less braid lengthwise but it is thinner which is why it won't fill the spool as much. Again something not unexpected if you drop from 15lb to 6lb.

This was why they are supposed to put backing on (that is, partially fill the spool with mono) - the guys at my local tackle shops are very good at judging it correctly. To be fair it looks like they put some backing on but I'm not 100% certain either. I'd ask them how much backing they put on it - it looks like it needed about another 2mm of backing. For that model Sienna I think 30 to 40m of 8lb backing is generally required but don't hold me to it.

I'm usually pedantic about it so in the past I've put the braid on first then put the 8lb backing on and then stripped it all off and end for ended it so the backing then goes on first. When I finally lose too much braid I strip the braid (but leave the mono backing) and then replace it with the exact thickness and length of braid I used previously. When I've done it for the last few times I've had several reels of the same so I set one up with braid and then backing on top to get it to what I consider is optimal and then wind it onto the other reel so I end up with the braid on top.

I would not stress it too much. While not optimal it is not too bad either. It will make a huge difference on your casting.

By the way, any chance you could make it to the lower North shore of Sydney in the next few months. Feeling your pain and think we can shorten your learning curve dramatically.

Edited November 4, 2021 by DerekD

[Denisfisho]

3 minutes ago, DerekD said:

Technically it is probably not less braid lengthwise but it is thinner which is why it won't fill the spool as much. Again something not unexpected if you drop from 15lb to 6lb.

This was why they are supposed to put backing on (partially fill the spool with mono) - the guys at my local tackle shops are very good at judging it correctly. To be fair it looks like they put some backing on but I'm not 100% certain either. I'd ask them how much backing they put on it. For a Sienna I think 30 to 40m of 8lb will do it but don't hold me to it.

I'm usually pedantic about it so in the past I've put the braid on first then put the 8lb backing on and then stripped it all off and end for ended it so the backing then goes on first. When I finally lose too much braid I strip the braid (but leave the mono backing) and then replace it with the exact thickness and length of braid I used previously.

I think it does have backing on it because the other reel I did before had it put on and I can see a tiny tiny section with the backing showing through.

Should I just take the loss and go and get it re-spooled by my usual guy or is what I've got good enough? 

I'm pedantic aswel so I'd rather get it as efficient as possible.

[DerekD]

BTW when I say local tackle store I usually go to the shops that do fishing stuff only rather than the outdoor chains. Their knowledge is generally a little better. Not all the time as I've met some very knowledgeable people in the chains but generally.

[Denisfisho]

1 minute ago, DerekD said:

BTW when I say local tackle store I usually go to the shops that do fishing stuff only rather than the outdoor chains. Their knowledge is generally a little better. Not all the time as I've met some very knowledgeable people in the chains but generally.

Lesson learnt. Unfortunately, the first guy who spooled my other reel did it great and even sat down and showed me his favourite knots but today it just seemed like younger blokes wanting to clock off.

[DerekD]

Hi Denis,

150m of 6lb braid should be covering that backing totally so I'm surprised you can see it.

My suggestion is don't stress. Fish it and have fun. Learn the limitations of the gear and in a few years you will be addicted enough to spoil yourself with an upgrade and this will be your spare reel.

Lets get you out there catching fish. I would love for you to find the joy of this style of fishing.

I expect you to get out there tomorrow for a little while and see the casting range improve meaning more ground to cover. If you can start with something like a 1/6oz to get a feel of what it is capable of.

There is a degree of subtlety with plastics which takes people a little while to grasp. One of the expressions I use when teaching is "little kid, little steps" so with a small grub do small hops.

Edited November 4, 2021 by DerekD

[Denisfisho]

8 minutes ago, DerekD said:

Hi Denis,

150m of 6lb braid should be covering that backing totally so I'm surprised you can see it.

My suggestion is don't stress. Fish it and have fun. Learn the limitations of the gear and in a few years you will be addicted enough to spoil yourself with an upgrade and this will be your spare reel.

Lets get you out there catching fish. I would love for you to find the joy of this style of fishing.

Thank you - Yeah, I could make it there in the next few months, if I'm still not catching anything, I will let you know.

I will be fishing around Lake Illawarra probably this weekend. I have bought some 8lb flouro leader, 1/8 1h tournament tt jighead hooks and 2inch gulp baby shrimps camos to try out. Wish me luck

Edited November 4, 2021 by Denisfisho

[DerekD]

9 minutes ago, Denisfisho said:

Thank you - Yeah, I could make it there in the next few months, if I'm still not catching anything, I will let you know.

I will be fishing around Lake Illawarra probably this weekend. I have bought some 8lb flouro leader, 1/18 1h tournament tt jighead hooks and 2inch gulp baby shrimps camos to try out. Wish me luck

Good luck but be careful with the ultralight lures. If you do not wind them on under tension then there is a risk of birds nesting. I keep a couple of pins in my tackle box to sort this out. I went through this learning curve when I started. The braid back then was a fused rather than woven braid and had a tendency to grab as it started to fray.

If starting out I generally suggest not going much lighter than 1/8oz with the grubs as it will allow you to get a reasonable casting distance and minimise the bird nests.

If you are fishing 1/18 then slow it right down. The hang time should be fantastic but I'm guessing casting distance will be 10 to 15m. Be patient to let it hit the bottom. You have to fish the area where the fish are most likely to be on the day.

If I am new to an area I start off with a not subtle 1/4oz and 3or 4" minnow or larger grub. I try for what I call the easy flathead. It is purely covering ground. Flathead are less concerned about subtle. I then go lighter and lighter while I cover the area and then move along.

Edited November 4, 2021 by DerekD

[DerekD]

BTW - what brand of braid did you end up getting?

Edited November 4, 2021 by DerekD

[Denisfisho]

45 minutes ago, DerekD said:

BTW - what brand of braid did you end up getting?

6lb J braid daiwa , and sorry I meant 1/8 ounce. So you think maybe the 3 to 4inch zman minnows might be better to use for my first catch then the 2inch gulp shrimps, do bigger sps tend to get fish quicker?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Denisfisho

[XD351]

One way you can get the backing right is to use the spare spool if you got one with the reel ,wind the braid on first then top shot with the backing then change to an empty spool and wind the backing and braid onto the new spool .Only has to be done once as the backing never gets taken off and your next spool of braid will fit perfect every time - if you don’t change diameter too much .

[DerekD]

8 hours ago, Denisfisho said:

6lb J braid daiwa , and sorry I meant 1/8 ounce. So you think maybe the 3 to 4inch zman minnows might be better to use for my first catch then the 2inch gulp shrimps, do bigger sps tend to get fish quicker?

Excellent on the braid. If you have good casting technique then you should see some dramatic improvements in casting range. If it hasn't improved dramatically then we are giving you a casting lesson if we are able to catch up. 😃

Everything seems to hit the grubs and I think they are an under-rated lure. My first flathead over 70cm was caught on a grub while using 4lb braid and 4lb leader.

I like the minnows as they match the baitfish profile and for me they are very effective on the pelagics with a retrieve I worked out several years ago. With the jigheads I use I can cover far more ground than I can with the grubs. The problem with minnows is they don't have that built in action of the grubs, paddle tails and wriggle tails. You have to create the movement to entice the fish but when you nail it they look seriously good in the water with a darting retrieve (usually referred to as walk the dog).

They compliment each other which is why I have both (well actually all four types but those two are my go tos) in my kit. I'd like to see you learning how to each of them during a session as you don't know what will be working on the day. Part of your fishing will be making a decision based on where you are and the time of year. Example, the big schools of kings and salmon are usually moving into Sydney harbour at this time of year. They will be followed by bonito and mack tuna if you are lucky and then frigate mackeral. They will be feeding on small silver and slightly translucent baitfish which I have been told are anchovy. Over the next few months these baitfish will grow from several mm long to several cm long. If I get down to the water and see schools busting up and feeding on the surface then I know where the fish are and out comes my minnow profile and I try and fish the full water column.

The grubs are probably more likely to get you hits if you slow it down and let it hit the bottom and then use small hops. If you have them already then start with them but don't be afraid to cover the area with one and then switch to the other and work that same area again. Once you have worked an area then move along as suggested by several others. With this gear and a small travel pack you have a lot of mobility. Cover ground and you are more likely to catch fish.

Learning to use soft plastics, slices, blades, spinners, squid jigs will be like giving you a set of tools but you have to decide which one for each task. Probably start with the 2.5inch watermelon flake grub and 1/8oz jig head then see if you can switch to your 3.5 inch motor oil with a heavier jig head to cover some distance (I usually do it the other way around to try and get a bigger fish and quicker). Target species: Flathead. Mix up your hops with singles and doubles. It has to be a flick to get that bait fish darting off the bottom. Watch Shroom's video (it is an simplification but the basics are very clear).

@XD351 did a really nice map of Pittwater explaining the covering ground a bit further back in the post.

Biggest thing. Have fun. Enjoy even just casting out and watching the line float down towards the surface of the water. Watch the rod tip for bites and you will also feel this. If a fish hits your lure don't assume it will keep eating but give it the smallest of flicks to fool the fish into thinking its meal is getting away and force the take. They will often have several goes at a lure.

Edited November 4, 2021 by DerekD

[Denisfisho]

On 11/5/2021 at 2:49 AM, DerekD said:

Excellent on the braid. If you have good casting technique then you should see some dramatic improvements in casting range. If it hasn't improved dramatically then we are giving you a casting lesson if we are able to catch up. 😃

Everything seems to hit the grubs and I think they are an under-rated lure. My first flathead over 70cm was caught on a grub while using 4lb braid and 4lb leader.

I like the minnows as they match the baitfish profile and for me they are very effective on the pelagics with a retrieve I worked out several years ago. With the jigheads I use I can cover far more ground than I can with the grubs. The problem with minnows is they don't have that built in action of the grubs, paddle tails and wriggle tails. You have to create the movement to entice the fish but when you nail it they look seriously good in the water with a darting retrieve (usually referred to as walk the dog).

They compliment each other which is why I have both (well actually all four types but those two are my go tos) in my kit. I'd like to see you learning how to each of them during a session as you don't know what will be working on the day. Part of your fishing will be making a decision based on where you are and the time of year. Example, the big schools of kings and salmon are usually moving into Sydney harbour at this time of year. They will be followed by bonito and mack tuna if you are lucky and then frigate mackeral. They will be feeding on small silver and slightly translucent baitfish which I have been told are anchovy. Over the next few months these baitfish will grow from several mm long to several cm long. If I get down to the water and see schools busting up and feeding on the surface then I know where the fish are and out comes my minnow profile and I try and fish the full water column.

The grubs are probably more likely to get you hits if you slow it down and let it hit the bottom and then use small hops. If you have them already then start with them but don't be afraid to cover the area with one and then switch to the other and work that same area again. Once you have worked an area then move along as suggested by several others. With this gear and a small travel pack you have a lot of mobility. Cover ground and you are more likely to catch fish.

Learning to use soft plastics, slices, blades, spinners, squid jigs will be like giving you a set of tools but you have to decide which one for each task. Probably start with the 2.5inch watermelon flake grub and 1/8oz jig head then see if you can switch to your 3.5 inch motor oil with a heavier jig head to cover some distance (I usually do it the other way around to try and get a bigger fish and quicker). Target species: Flathead. Mix up your hops with singles and doubles. It has to be a flick to get that bait fish darting off the bottom. Watch Shroom's video (it is an simplification but the basics are very clear).

@XD351 did a really nice map of Pittwater explaining the covering ground a bit further back in the post.

Biggest thing. Have fun. Enjoy even just casting out and watching the line float down towards the surface of the water. Watch the rod tip for bites and you will also feel this. If a fish hits your lure don't assume it will keep eating but give it the smallest of flicks to fool the fish into thinking its meal is getting away and force the take. They will often have several goes at a lure.

Hey mate went out in the water.

I definitely got bites and the plastic was even moved halfway from the hook from the bites. I suspect it was those little puffer fish you see everywhere but there was also whiting of small size who took half effort bites also.

I really did spend alot of time out there and fished the drop off's from the flats but maybe going at 11am to 3pm wasn't optimal timing.

Positive things are casting distance gone up and found the spot that all locals fish from.

[Denisfisho]

Got some good news. Update later tonight. Yessss

[Little_Flatty]

1 hour ago, Denisfisho said:

Got some good news. Update later tonight. Yessss

Sounds like a report is in order!

[Denisfisho]

2 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

Sounds like a report is in order!

After an afternoon nap i decided to have a look at Google maps to see if there were any other spots around the lake to try out for a last chance night fishing session.

Went to the spot and it dead quiet with no wind and the edges of the water were showing some fish with black tail ends.

I begin casting with no bites but I get mobile and when casting from the ramp I notice my first bite. I cast again and again into that same spot and lo and behold my first hookup and catch on lures has arrived.

There was a waiter in the shop nearby watching me fist pumping the air in excitement at catching some tiny fish but oh man he doesnt know what it took to get here.

Went to take the hook out from the fish but it had unhooked itself and was an easy throw back into the water.

A small success but probably the most important one I'll have.

Thanks for the tips all.

[DerekD]

And so it starts... Congratulations @Denisfisho and welcome to the club. First of many more as you get better.

Offer still stands to show you more if you make it to the lower north shore down the track.

[big Neil]

Well done Denisfisho. Seeking help on here will always improve your chances. You still have to get out there and put it all into practice and be persistent. You have done that and been rewarded. Now it's up to you. Keep practising, don't be afraid to ask for help if you need to, and above all enjoy the experiences. bn

[Little_Flatty]

Well done Dennis! When you find tailor, they are almost always willing to play

The first of many!

[XD351]

Congratulations! The lure bug has bitten and you will catch more in the future - just take your time , think about what you are trying to do and most importantly experiment!

Here is a link to a YouTube channel that does some lure fishing in Lake Illawarra.

https://youtube.com/user/JohnColeiro

[kingie chaser]

 

Nice work.

[Mike Sydney]

Good stuff Denis! I know how tough it is, I went through this July-Nov 2020 hunting that first lure catch and you start believing it’s all a big con job.

stoked you made progress, went lighter and got a hook up. 
 

My two cents from being in the same boat last year. Lighter line is huge. Fishing slow and letting it hit the bottom is huge. Staying moving is important too.

One point I will argue a bit here . A lot of comments on how straight plastics need to be rigged to get fish and I’m not sure I agree 100%.
 

Now, I am sure it helps a lot, but I’ve got a lot of fish on plastics now and I’d say I could count the number of straight rigged ones on one hand. Mine are always bent, twisted, not quite right and I’m doing just fine on plastics.

I think my point is don’t get hung up on one obstacle. The tide isn’t right, my plastic isn’t straight, the wind is wrong, I’m in the wrong place. Nothing is ever going to be perfect but just keep casting and you’ll find success as you have now. 
 

hopefully this is the floodgates opening. If you’re around Sydney I fish a lot at night, feel free to hit me up for a session as I have been where you were not too long ago.

cheers , Mike 

[Rebel]

Well done. More to come.

Keep fishing.