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frankS

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I know a lot of you young blokes get a bit sick of hearing us OLD codgers talk about how WE did it in our day.

Back then there was no internet there was no fishing forums there was no mobile phones, in fact there were no electronics to speak of.

I remember my first fish finder ( depth finder ) was a stylus that flashed in a circle and would show the depth by increasing the volume of dots  on the screen, then came the paper style sounders, we thought this was REAL out of space stuff.

We had to outsmart the fish to catch it. Admitably  there were more fish around in them days, but we still had to find where they were likely to be, so we learnt to read the water, we learned to read where structure was likely to be, we learned how to actually feel for a bite and learned when and how hard to strike to get a hook up.

Mostly we learned from self experience OR talking with someone about what to do.

I was talking with a young guy ( 16 years old ) the other day and the knowledge he had about most aspects of fishing blew my mind, He could name all the tackle manufacturers, state the Serial numbers of different rod and what it all meant, could state what hook had what number to it, Could identify lures from my collection that I didn't have a clue who made it. The list of this guys knowledge goes on and on.

I set a casting outfit up and we went over the park to have a few casts. He didn't have a clue, he bird nested my outfits first try, even the spin reels he couldn't get a decent cast in, was doing pretty well everything wrong.

To talk with this young bloke you would think as I did, " wow this guy has got it all together " but in reality it was all knowledge and NO practice experience.

You may all be thinking what is the point to this post ?

Well just some advise to the young guys out there that come to forums to educate their minds, GET OUT ON THE WATER AND LEARN.

Nothing like practice at anything you do.

Hope some see what I am getting at.

Frank

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Other than welding (4yrs of Tafe courses)  and basic fishing ( Mum  taught me this ) I am self taught in every thing else - machining / model engineering , electronics, 3D printing , mechanics , spray painting , panel beating etc etc . I either had to learn these things because I couldn’t afford to pay someone else to do it or it was something that interested me , I spent a lot of time with my head buried in a book which is great for the basic understanding of what you are doing but nothing beats practical experience - fishing is no different .

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3 hours ago, frankS said:

I know a lot of you young blokes get a bit sick of hearing us OLD codgers talk about how WE did it in our day.

Back then there was no internet there was no fishing forums there was no mobile phones, in fact there were no electronics to speak of.

I remember my first fish finder ( depth finder ) was a stylus that flashed in a circle and would show the depth by increasing the volume of dots  on the screen, then came the paper style sounders, we thought this was REAL out of space stuff.

We had to outsmart the fish to catch it. Admitably  there were more fish around in them days, but we still had to find where they were likely to be, so we learnt to read the water, we learned to read where structure was likely to be, we learned how to actually feel for a bite and learned when and how hard to strike to get a hook up.

Mostly we learned from self experience OR talking with someone about what to do.

I was talking with a young guy ( 16 years old ) the other day and the knowledge he had about most aspects of fishing blew my mind, He could name all the tackle manufacturers, state the Serial numbers of different rod and what it all meant, could state what hook had what number to it, Could identify lures from my collection that I didn't have a clue who made it. The list of this guys knowledge goes on and on.

I set a casting outfit up and we went over the park to have a few casts. He didn't have a clue, he bird nested my outfits first try, even the spin reels he couldn't get a decent cast in, was doing pretty well everything wrong.

To talk with this young bloke you would think as I did, " wow this guy has got it all together " but in reality it was all knowledge and NO practice experience.

You may all be thinking what is the point to this post ?

Well just some advise to the young guys out there that come to forums to educate their minds, GET OUT ON THE WATER AND LEARN.

Nothing like practice at anything you do.

Hope some see what I am getting at.

Frank

I bet he was a tradesman also.😉

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As the old saying goes "All the gear and no idea".

As I said in another thread recently, I fished land based game (live baiting) back in the 70's when things were just getting started.

Other than reels and line, there was no gear and half the fun was creating our own. Long gaffs strong enough to lift fish over 50kg and longer rods than the 7 foot boat rods. Taking to old surf rods with the hack saw was the go long before the Butterworth JS9-102 hit the market.

Rigs and bait species was all trial and error.

Long before Google Earth, it was always good fun exploring Beecroft Peninsula for new spots on dirt bikes as well.

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I have a mate who has a nephew that constantly asks questions - mostly about cars which we try to answer as best we can but this guy will then proceeded too Google it and tell us we are wrong .

He is now banished from asking anything and was told quite sternly where I was going to make a new home for his phone and it was going to be painful - for him ! 
That is one of the things that separate Fishing from the rest - It can take you places you never dreamed existed , it can expand your  skills , it can feed you and you will make friends - fishing covers it all !

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What a surprising outcome on the field  with so much knowledge, I’m hearing of a few young guns these days with all the skills of us seasoned fishos catching amazing fish & when asked how long they’ve been at it the answer is less than two years 

All this easy to access knowledge is one thing but understanding the principles & applying it properly is another thing. There are many people out there who seem to have all the degrees or knowledge base but don’t know how to apply it. I dare say this is happening in all facets of life, we used to call them “know it all’s” but one thing that’s missing these days is the hands on practice of an art or skill & learning to improve & adapt those skills to gain more knowledge. Unfortunately one of the best traits to have that appears to be disappearing from society is “commonsense”

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I recon its like everyday living, some people are natural at it and some, it doesn't matter how hard they try just don't reach those heights.

All trades and hobbies are the same.

I've been lucky to be in a position over the years and see so called experienced and well known fisherman who cant tie a knot and make silly mistakes loosing great fish.

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Just to relate a first hand recent experience, I know a guy that is starting beach fishing, he asked me for some tips, and I told him my usual, look for a gutter, use beach worms for bait. A day or so later he knocked on my door and said he was going worming, and he has just watched a YouTube movie on how to catch them, he was armed with everything he saw in the movie, a stink bag on a stick, a little bait bucket, I said OK, let's go, after about 30mins if catching none (I had a few) he was astounded, it looked easy on the movie!!

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40 minutes ago, jordy said:

  Reminds me recently of a young bloke I seen with a flat tire at the local shops I asked if he needed anything and told me its all good roadside assist on the way.

When my daughter started driving more than 10 years ago, I showed her how to change a flat tyre.

A few years back, she saw 3 young blokes standing beside a car with a flat tyre, so she stopped. In effect, they did not know what to do, so she showed them and changed the tyre herself. The boys just stood there scratching their heads and their balls :074:. They had no idea, even though she explained it. 🤪

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To find the depth I was fishing, I attached a large ball sinker to the line, dropped it to the bottom, marked the amount of line out, then hauled up and threw the sinker out from the boat. Where it landed gave me the depth. 

Don't use a depth sounder now.

In Port Hacking, I have a good idea of what depth is where, having fished it for a few years. 😂

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To all the young guys out there just starting off with their new hobby/ past time. Please don't get me wrong and don't take what I said as personal or the wrong way. I don't in any way suggest that you stop asking questions, just the opposite, ask all the questions on here that you need answers to,  what you want/need to learn.

The more you ask the more you will learn. What I am saying is get practical experience and try new ways to catch that fish you are chasing, THINK about where your bait/lure is and try to imagine how the fish you are targeting views that bait/lure, and what you should do to make that bait/lure more attractive so that the fish will strike at it.

The young guy I was talking about wants to be a fishing journalist come charter operator and is jamming all this  knowledge into his brain so he will look the part. I have no doubt he will succeed and will be great at what he intends to do as he is a go getter and will no doubt catch heaps of great fish . But he needs to learn some practical skills before he attempts to apply for any job relating to fishing.

I suggested he volunteer some time in his local tackle shop so he can play with some reels etc and get to understand how to handle the equipment.

So to all you young blokes ask away and get out on the water and practice, practice, practice.

Frank

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True words indeed @frankS. In anything we do - most of all fishing - nothing teaches you more than real life experience.

I don't know the kid you were speaking to, but I can hypothesise how he - and many of his peers - came to be this way, given my own life experiences.

Some of us here are lucky to come from fishing families, or have someone close to us show us the ropes. Others of us came of a generation who could come and go as they please, so long as they were back for dinner; thus having the time to work things out for ourselves. Some of us came from neither, and I was one of these. Fishing was a rare treat that I got to indulge in, when my parents - both frazzled by long work hours, long commutes and a busy schedule - could muster the energy to drive me for over an hour out of the hills to the coast for a fish. This left me in the position of nothing better to do other than nerd-out on library books and magazines (the old version of the web) in my spare time. Thus, I knew everything that could have been learned from the library about fish and fishing at the time. As part of this, I learned so much about the history of Sydney Harbour that I won a history prize at school for a paper I wrote on it. But goals like catching fish on lures were out of reach until I got my first car and was able to drive myself to the water often enough to get sufficient practice.

Ironically, after gaining my independence as an 18 year old, I discovered that I could catch good fish much closer to home and we didn't need that long trip to the coast! But the effect on me was permanent; I have since made sure I lived close to fishable water and don't like to venture far from it on holidays! 🤣

Looking back, I don't have any complaints at all. For all my parents didn't give me, they gave me a lot of other things, and I'm eternally grateful for that. But it was certainly hard to see this when I was a teenager.

I can imagine it's only getting worse for kids these days, with families moving further and further out to get their own slice of the Australian dream, and both parents working long hours and enduring long commutes to service their huge mortgages.

I also think young prospective anglers are done a real disservice by YouTube and social media. Whilst these are great resources for anglers, they also do a lot of damage to the expectations of novices. Some content is biased towards successful sessions, and often only shows very impressive captures under extreme conditions (e.g. Marlin on kayak). This gives young anglers the false impression that they can just roll down to the shoreline and pull out amazing fish with little effort. These resources give little of the story of these anglers; how they mastered the pursuit of smaller (but worthwhile) quarry, learned the ropes from more senior anglers, the fright they got when their safety was threatened and most importantly, how they spent day upon day on the water, often racking up numerous donuts in the name of experience. I think that's why we occasionally get new members popping up, asking questions about LBG marlin when they obviously don't have much experience.

I did have one (massive) trump card as a young fisho; Ray from Angler's World North Rocks. I'd pop in whenever my mum was doing the groceries. If it was quiet in the shop, he'd go with me to the carpark outside with a fly rod and give me a few lessons (the skills from which have long atrophied, but I still remember the key pointers). He was the one who guided me through my first rod build and sold me my first spool of braid. He also sold me his own tiny Sigma Whisker Titan for $20 which I spooled with 1kg mono and still use today as my favourite summer flats whiting reel. This was great preparation for when I got my independence and was able to fish more. Geez I'd love to buy him a beer one day and catch up - I'm not sure he realises how much he gave me.

Along with Frank's words of wisdom, my advice for kids in this position is as follows: bide your time, knuckle down and work hard on things that will gain you independence and freedom. Things like working hard at school, getting a job (start while at school if you can), saving for a car, then saving more money still to fish and travel later on (going fishing is more important than having more gear). At 16, it won't be so long until you can fish with pretty much all of your spare time.

Go looking for fishable water close to you. It might be closer than you expect, maybe even within walking or biking distance of home or school. If you find fishable water like that, flog it to death at every opportunity. If the fish are there and you put in the time/experiment, the waterway will reveal its secrets to you.

Understand when you get more independence to fish, that some of the YouTube videos are rare experiences, and that if you persist, you will experience a few like that yourself. The most satisfying part of fishing is breaking your duck after weeks, months and years of donuts, and watching your consistency increase after that. That is what makes fishing truly fun; it is the journey, not just the successes.

 

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I guess to put a different slant on things, I have found over the years, that the best fishermen/women have started out young, catching all sorts of small fish from jetties and river banks, and even better if they have done some diving to actually see what fish get up to, then progress to bigger and better things Those who start at (say) gamefishing miss out on the very basics of fish and fishing, habitat and where fish are likely to be, life skills that put you in front when it comes to catching a few in hard fished areas, just simple stuff, but very necessary.

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Hmmmm.....

Hi @frankS you have given me something to think about....

I'm trying to frame my thoughts as I write this so I hope I don't give offence.

I'm kind of jealous of the people starting out these days in any new venture as there is a wealth of information available on most topics of interest. As you said starting out many people have the theoretical knowledge but not the practical. On that I am in complete agreement with you. Where I may differ from you is I don't really look upon it as a bad thing as you have to start somewhere.

I was born in 1970. I learned how things work helping my dad around the house on little projects like fixing the flush mechanism in the toilet. I only had to be smart enough to understand how they worked but not necessarily smart enough to invent the things in the first place. I studied mechanical engineering at the University of Technology, Sydney. Back then it was referred to as a sandwich course in that you studied for 6 months then did a practical stage for a minimum of 22 weeks (you could also do part time). By the end of the course you were supposed to have had 144 weeks of experience in the workforce (at least 20 weeks in a workshop and 20 weeks in a design related office). This was later dropped to 90 weeks all up. The advantage of this was you ended up with a more rounded engineer that could balance the theoretical with the practical. You got to experience several different industries and could work out along the way what suited you and maybe walk straight into a job on completion. You got several references and generally earned some money too. The downside was that a 4 year honours degree took 6 years. In short I'd like to think I've learned by doing but that was the only practical option back then. The other big take home I had from learning engineering that way is how far away the practical could be from the theoretical.

They may not have someone to show them the way so I really respect the people starting out in a new field of knowledge if they have taken the effort to learn what they can by themselves. The problem is that it is often difficult for them to grow beyond a certain point as often they won't find the little tips and tricks which are only minor improvements but when combined can result in a noticeable advantage.

Years ago I was watching three young women trying to use a handline to get a bait in the water. One held onto the spool and the two others dragged some line out then threw it into the water. They saw me standing there with a big smile on my face at which point I told them that I really respected (and I truly did) how they worked out a method of getting the bait into the water. I then showed them how it was designed to work and how the line peeled off if the spool was held in a certain way. I don't have a problem with having no idea if you are willing to give something a go and also be prepared to ask for guidance to get improvement.

I mentor several people each year and we pretty well always start with casting (if the basics aren't right then I have to keep coming back to it). For the majority (say 80%) of people (a combination of beginners and experienced) I can make several suggestions to help them with both accuracy and distance. Even though there is a lot of information on line and they do practice they often don't know the potential they are missing out on because they don't have a benchmark to work against.

In my own case I'd love to go back to myself back in 2009 and spend a day with myself going over the things I'd worked out in the coming years.

PS. I saw a quote recently which I think kind of applies here to what I am trying to say: “Never make fun of someone if they mispronounce a word. It means they learned it by reading” - Anonymous.

Edited by DerekD
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When I was oh about 9 or 10 I got hooked on lures but just couldn’t catch anything on them , read all about lure fishing until my head hurt , looked at the obligatory diagram in just about every publication of the time showing a drawing of person standing on the bank and the path of the lure from rod tip out for the cast then a saw tooth line showing the retrieve but all the ever mentioned was cast out and work the lure back . What did Work the lure mean ? To me it was cast out and wind it in , they never mentioned things like walking the dog, slow roll  or pausing the lure and I ended up turning away from lures for a few years . I ended up getting into trout fishing and decided to give the lures a try, this time I could see the fish and the lure and managed to work out what they liked and the light bulb lit ! It was down hill from that point on but I wish I had someone to show me a few different techniques back then but the magazines at the time were more interested in selling you some new lure  or telling you how wonderful their trip to some distant location that I would never see! That was 40 yrs a go and they have it a lot better now !

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I consider myself to be very lucky, I grew up on a small estuary, I fished for Mullet, Garfish and Longtoms, and in a funny way, was kind of way ahead of my time "trolling" for Flathead from an old row boat, with a handline out the back and a small Mullet alive on the hook, I moved to crabs and then diving, learnt how Bream fed around the rocks, found out how hard a Lobster can close his legs. My son grew up on the same estuary, he is in his 30's now and can catch a fish anywhere, can find a big Mudcrab in our urban area, where most would never think of trying, keeps his family fed with fish, Prawns and Lobster, all because of his basic grounding in his youth.

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On 11/29/2021 at 10:35 AM, frankS said:

I was talking with a young guy ( 16 years old ) the other day and the knowledge he had about most aspects of fishing blew my mind, He could name all the tackle manufacturers, state the Serial numbers of different rod and what it all meant, could state what hook had what number to it, Could identify lures from my collection that I didn't have a clue who made it. The list of this guys knowledge goes on and on.

Plenty of internet warriors & verbal hero's out there, making claims etc without any "practical" experience.

 

Ask them to tie a few knots in front of you like an FG, Bimini twist, Australian plait, snell, rapala, dropper loop etc.

 

They would probably say mum is calling me I have to go home now :whistling: 

 

 

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I got a bit upset where i saw a question being asked by a young fella like myself and a response came back from an older Fella being if you gotta ask that you don't deserve to participate. 

 

Not everyone has the chance to learn from their parents or have a mentor to help them learn things. Or simply they haven't done it before.  With all the information and communication streams available why not answer a simple question and set someone on the right path rather than shoot them down for asking.  (this happened on facebook)

 

Parents today are busy and I am trying to set up a lifestyle for myself which is more like what my grandfather lived. More off the land and self sufficient. This is easier to do now Because the technology allows us. I live off the Electricity Grid Produce my own meat and veggies have Dams stocked with fish for consumption. 

 

The times are what you make them and i have great interest in how we used to do things because when the battery goes flat well I'm fishing old school. 

 

My 2 cents  - Used to be a dollar

 

 

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You sure wouldn't expect that from anyone on here.

Sometimes silly questions at times can be frustrating but you have to remember everyone has to be a learner at some stage.

Something I really enjoy is when a young beginner askes a question that get's you thinking, there are many things I need to still learn even after more than 60 years of dedicated fishing, I keep saying I learn something new with every outing, sometimes the teacher can listen and learn from the pupil.

If I am fishing near a young bloke that is catching fish when I am not, I am not that old fashioned not to ask him what he is doing right and check his rig out.

Frank

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On 11/30/2021 at 9:49 AM, Little_Flatty said:

True words indeed @frankS. In anything we do - most of all fishing - nothing teaches you more than real life experience.

I don't know the kid you were speaking to, but I can hypothesise how he - and many of his peers - came to be this way, given my own life experiences.

Some of us here are lucky to come from fishing families, or have someone close to us show us the ropes. Others of us came of a generation who could come and go as they please, so long as they were back for dinner; thus having the time to work things out for ourselves. Some of us came from neither, and I was one of these. Fishing was a rare treat that I got to indulge in, when my parents - both frazzled by long work hours, long commutes and a busy schedule - could muster the energy to drive me for over an hour out of the hills to the coast for a fish. This left me in the position of nothing better to do other than nerd-out on library books and magazines (the old version of the web) in my spare time. Thus, I knew everything that could have been learned from the library about fish and fishing at the time. As part of this, I learned so much about the history of Sydney Harbour that I won a history prize at school for a paper I wrote on it. But goals like catching fish on lures were out of reach until I got my first car and was able to drive myself to the water often enough to get sufficient practice.

Ironically, after gaining my independence as an 18 year old, I discovered that I could catch good fish much closer to home and we didn't need that long trip to the coast! But the effect on me was permanent; I have since made sure I lived close to fishable water and don't like to venture far from it on holidays! 🤣

Looking back, I don't have any complaints at all. For all my parents didn't give me, they gave me a lot of other things, and I'm eternally grateful for that. But it was certainly hard to see this when I was a teenager.

I can imagine it's only getting worse for kids these days, with families moving further and further out to get their own slice of the Australian dream, and both parents working long hours and enduring long commutes to service their huge mortgages.

I also think young prospective anglers are done a real disservice by YouTube and social media. Whilst these are great resources for anglers, they also do a lot of damage to the expectations of novices. Some content is biased towards successful sessions, and often only shows very impressive captures under extreme conditions (e.g. Marlin on kayak). This gives young anglers the false impression that they can just roll down to the shoreline and pull out amazing fish with little effort. These resources give little of the story of these anglers; how they mastered the pursuit of smaller (but worthwhile) quarry, learned the ropes from more senior anglers, the fright they got when their safety was threatened and most importantly, how they spent day upon day on the water, often racking up numerous donuts in the name of experience. I think that's why we occasionally get new members popping up, asking questions about LBG marlin when they obviously don't have much experience.

I did have one (massive) trump card as a young fisho; Ray from Angler's World North Rocks. I'd pop in whenever my mum was doing the groceries. If it was quiet in the shop, he'd go with me to the carpark outside with a fly rod and give me a few lessons (the skills from which have long atrophied, but I still remember the key pointers). He was the one who guided me through my first rod build and sold me my first spool of braid. He also sold me his own tiny Sigma Whisker Titan for $20 which I spooled with 1kg mono and still use today as my favourite summer flats whiting reel. This was great preparation for when I got my independence and was able to fish more. Geez I'd love to buy him a beer one day and catch up - I'm not sure he realises how much he gave me.

Along with Frank's words of wisdom, my advice for kids in this position is as follows: bide your time, knuckle down and work hard on things that will gain you independence and freedom. Things like working hard at school, getting a job (start while at school if you can), saving for a car, then saving more money still to fish and travel later on (going fishing is more important than having more gear). At 16, it won't be so long until you can fish with pretty much all of your spare time.

Go looking for fishable water close to you. It might be closer than you expect, maybe even within walking or biking distance of home or school. If you find fishable water like that, flog it to death at every opportunity. If the fish are there and you put in the time/experiment, the waterway will reveal its secrets to you.

Understand when you get more independence to fish, that some of the YouTube videos are rare experiences, and that if you persist, you will experience a few like that yourself. The most satisfying part of fishing is breaking your duck after weeks, months and years of donuts, and watching your consistency increase after that. That is what makes fishing truly fun; it is the journey, not just the successes.

 

That is a brilliant write up filled with great observations and advice. We all have a different story of how we came to be involved in fishing. Here, on Fishraider, the journey seems less important than the experiences which we are able to pass on to the newbies. Like the philosophical debate of nature versus nurture, circumstance has created the modern young angler to be high on knowledge but low on experience. If they are able to persist, they will succeed in becoming good anglers. They certainly have the ability to embrace technology in their sport/hobby but do they have the patience? In the modern world of instant problem = instant solution (thanks Mr Google) will they be better than their older mentors? Time will tell.

 

Cheers, bn

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I have spent many yrs chasing snapper in shallow water  we spent hrs on the water up n down the coast sometimes we got fish sometimes we didnt    i can now look at google maps and pinpoint spots to try because you can see the shallow reef systems on your screen and find the structure you are looking for  in the old days  i dswam round spearing to find my spots  lol

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2 hours ago, big Neil said:

That is a brilliant write up filled with great observations and advice. We all have a different story of how we came to be involved in fishing. Here, on Fishraider, the journey seems less important than the experiences which we are able to pass on to the newbies. Like the philosophical debate of nature versus nurture, circumstance has created the modern young angler to be high on knowledge but low on experience. If they are able to persist, they will succeed in becoming good anglers. They certainly have the ability to embrace technology in their sport/hobby but do they have the patience? In the modern world of instant problem = instant solution (thanks Mr Google) will they be better than their older mentors? Time will tell.

 

Cheers, bn

Thanks Neil, though I vehemently agree with Frank on the need to get out on the water and experience, I thought my story would be a good counterpoint to the other points of view here. I'm old compared to the younger raiders on this site (I'm 40) but young compared to others. I can't speak for the younger anglers, but I have an inkling of what their experiences might be like.

I've had the privilege of growing up with both technology and old school mentors. What I will tell you is that the internet as of yet offers no comparable option to having a real life mentor in fishing (or anything for that matter). For instance, look at the transformation that happens every time a new raider goes out with @DerekD; they start racking up multiple donuts, get frustrated and then after a session with Derek, they come out the other end optimistic, empowered and more often than not - successful.

What the internet does provide however, is the inspiration for getting started, a little support for ongoing learning and then it becomes a really useful tool when you are experienced, with maps, reports and the like. In between, however, it is difficult, as it is a balance between gaining lived experience and getting tailored advice (which this community is excellent for).

I have seen an interesting idea where a professional guide offers fishing lessons over Zoom. Services he offers include watching you fish (providing feedback on technique), teaching you how to read water, providing rigging lessons and so on. I think this has potential and this format might go some way to bridging the gap, better than videos and web pages.

This is only via personal observation, but one thing I think that has been lost since the advent of better internet is that we seem to have stopped reading books (physical, digital or otherwise). This seems to affect my own generation, as well as younger individuals. I have had a number of people turn their noses up at me when I suggest they read a book to grasp the basics. In fishing, this is a real loss, because I recall when I was young, that I had a few books that covered all of the basics, from rods/reels/handlines, to terminal tackle, to bait, to locations, to species, to time and tides and the list goes on. Some raiders might well remember this excellent publication, which I spent hours poring over:

image.png.9efa882c79fefd137feeab9f99ddcd35.png

Books like this taught me the difference between different hook patterns and how to select one, for instance. More than 30 years later, this knowledge is still relevant today. I'm wondering if there are any present day publications that are this comprehensive - all my reading these days has been on more specialised topics.

Whilst there is nothing wrong with asking a question of other anglers online, for basic knowledge, this is very inefficient for the novice angler. A book, on the other hand, is much quicker at imparting basic knowledge. In a few days of reading, one will understand the basics and will be well on the way to gaining some mastery of basic skills. Also, after understanding a few basics and getting a little on-the-water experience, advice from other anglers will start to come alive.

Though I'm experienced, I'm by no means a good angler. I think that not having had the ability to fish extensively when I was young has had some effect on that, and I definitely didn't make the most of my young adult years to improve my fishing either. But I still owe fishing and the fishing community a debt of gratitude as they have taught me how to read, research, think and adopt a growth mindset. This has had huge benefits throughout all aspects of my life.

Sorry for the essay...it wasn't meant to be! But as you might have gathered, this thread has really made me think, and I'd like to thank @frankS and the others for this.

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6 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

Thanks Neil, though I vehemently agree with Frank on the need to get out on the water and experience, I thought my story would be a good counterpoint to the other points of view here. I'm old compared to the younger raiders on this site (I'm 40) but young compared to others. I can't speak for the younger anglers, but I have an inkling of what their experiences might be like.

I've had the privilege of growing up with both technology and old school mentors. What I will tell you is that the internet as of yet offers no comparable option to having a real life mentor in fishing (or anything for that matter). For instance, look at the transformation that happens every time a new raider goes out with @DerekD; they start racking up multiple donuts, get frustrated and then after a session with Derek, they come out the other end optimistic, empowered and more often than not - successful.

What the internet does provide however, is the inspiration for getting started, a little support for ongoing learning and then it becomes a really useful tool when you are experienced, with maps, reports and the like. In between, however, it is difficult, as it is a balance between gaining lived experience and getting tailored advice (which this community is excellent for).

I have seen an interesting idea where a professional guide offers fishing lessons over Zoom. Services he offers include watching you fish (providing feedback on technique), teaching you how to read water, providing rigging lessons and so on. I think this has potential and this format might go some way to bridging the gap, better than videos and web pages.

This is only via personal observation, but one thing I think that has been lost since the advent of better internet is that we seem to have stopped reading books (physical, digital or otherwise). This seems to affect my own generation, as well as younger individuals. I have had a number of people turn their noses up at me when I suggest they read a book to grasp the basics. In fishing, this is a real loss, because I recall when I was young, that I had a few books that covered all of the basics, from rods/reels/handlines, to terminal tackle, to bait, to locations, to species, to time and tides and the list goes on. Some raiders might well remember this excellent publication, which I spent hours poring over:

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Books like this taught me the difference between different hook patterns and how to select one, for instance. More than 30 years later, this knowledge is still relevant today. I'm wondering if there are any present day publications that are this comprehensive - all my reading these days has been on more specialised topics.

Whilst there is nothing wrong with asking a question of other anglers online, for basic knowledge, this is very inefficient for the novice angler. A book, on the other hand, is much quicker at imparting basic knowledge. In a few days of reading, one will understand the basics and will be well on the way to gaining some mastery of basic skills. Also, after understanding a few basics and getting a little on-the-water experience, advice from other anglers will start to come alive.

Though I'm experienced, I'm by no means a good angler. I think that not having had the ability to fish extensively when I was young has had some effect on that, and I definitely didn't make the most of my young adult years to improve my fishing either. But I still owe fishing and the fishing community a debt of gratitude as they have taught me how to read, research, think and adopt a growth mindset. This has had huge benefits throughout all aspects of my life.

Sorry for the essay...it wasn't meant to be! But as you might have gathered, this thread has really made me think, and I'd like to thank @frankS and the others for this.

You certainly write well and project you feelings through it. You are obviously an educated person and being mid-range (40s) able to comprehend the nuances of the technological world. This is something that I struggle with. I do think there is a good place in the discussion for videos as long as everyone understands that editing will present an altered version of the realities of being on the water. Thank you Neil

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