New to blackfishing and some questions

[Denisfisho]

Hey all

 

I have been getting into blackfishing the last week which honestly just came about from always seeing blackfish wherever I go fishing.

It's also my first time float fishing and I have been enjoying it (when they actually bite) but I am still new and had some questions:

 

1. Is it worth the time to grab an Alvey reel and learn the traditional methods of blackfishing? Is it more tradition or is an alvey reel more effective?

2. Should I also grab a long blackfish style rod ? (I am thinking definitely yes but I am really tight on budgeting atm).

3. Is berleying essential? (I only ask because I dont want to be greedy with my weed spot if it impacts other fishers).

3. I don't where I can find blackfish articles on the website, can anyone point me to some?

4. What are some typically good conditions for blackfish fishing? I guess 1 hour before and after high tide or?

5. Whats the best ways to hook cabbage onto the lure and maybe any other tips? Is it normal to lose the weed without a proper down?

A local down at shellharbour marina gave me some tips on how to handle a hooked blackfish which helped me to land the below the next day, crazy long fight.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Denisfisho

[DerekD]

Hi Mate,

Call me when you get the chance and have a pen and paper ready. I'm non traditional in the way I chase these and it works. Head to head the traditionalists will probably outdo me but that doesn't bother me.

Regards,

Derek

[noelm]

If you live down Shellharbour way, and want to fish land based in the lake (not the ocean) then one of the best spots is the north west side of Windang bridge, outgoing tide, you will see the experts there regularly. Alvey reels (or any centre pin) are used because you can reverse the reel easy to allow a bit of line out when needed, but, spinning reels are OK for starters. A long soft rod has lots of advantages, easy to cast, less chance of pulling the hook (Blackfish have "soft" mouths) and less chance of breaking the light line used.

[Green Hornet]

Have a look here for plenty of good info 

Apart from what was said above, a longer rod can be useful when fishing places like rockwalls because when float fishing you have a fairly slack line and the extra length helps keep it away from the rocks. Also, blackfish have a habit of lunging down in the latter stages of the fight and a longer rod can help to keep your line clear of nasty structure.

Personally, I prefer a centerpin for estuary fishing though many good fishermen use spin reels and I still use them in some places myself.

I'd say stick with the gear you're currently using and only go to more specialised tackle if and when you feel the need.

Here's a pic of a few I caught on spin gear and braid.

[noelm]

Blackfishing can be fun, and the bigger ones are great eating, but remember there are times when they are feeding on worms, and weed will be second best bait, and plenty are caught on Nippers and bread. Do you intend to fish lakes and rivers, or around the ocean rocks? Two very different places to fish.

[Volitan]

Question 1:

A dedicated blackfish reel is nice, but if money is tight consider buying a secondhand general purpose centerpin steelite or Alvey on EBay. I use an old steelite that I found in the garage when we bought a house, plus I have bought a couple on EBay for when we have visitors who want to try fishing - I think they were about $15 each. But most people around here seem to use spinning reels now and they do fine.

Question 2:

a long rod is nice for the coverage it gives. I fish mainly off wharves and the good thing is it allows me to lever the fish away from the wharf. Again, not essential. 
 

Question 3:

I mostly fish off the local wharves which are fairly small structures, and the fish congregate around them at low tide so they are going to be under the wharf anyway, but berleying gets them on the bite and helps them to ignore the disturbance I am making. Catch rates are several times better with berley.

if you are worried about over exploiting resources, then travel to somewhere weed is abundant, get a lot, and then grow it at home. I use large plastic containers, put them in the sun, fill them up with weed and saltwater, and change the saltwater occasionally. They should last 6 months.

 

Question 4:

this varies with locality. In our area (shallow estuary) it’s one hour before to 1 hour after dead low. This is because the fish spread out and explore new areas when the the tide is high but congregate under the wharves and around other structure when the tide is low. They wait, milling about, under the wharves until there feeding areas are available again. So the answer depends on your locality and the strategies fish must adopt to exploit it.

 

Question 5:

use bait elastic to keep your weed on the hook. Get the very fine, almost invisible version. On numerous occasions I have caught 3 or 4 blackfish on the same piece of weed. The weed tends to get mangled into a hard lump after a couple of fish - sometimes this matters and sometimes it doesn’t.

 

 

[Volitan]

In terms of general tips, consider this. The water around the wharves near me is usually a bit dirty but sometimes it clears up to the extent that I can clearly watch the blackfish and how they interact with my rig. I use this time to experiment, and the thing I have found most influential is whether or not the fish can see a hook glinting in the weed. This makes sense, blackfish feed by picking weed off structure which they do tentatively and have the time to closely examine the weed before eating it, so they can reject anything that isn’t quite right. This is in contrast to, say, a pelagic which basically feeds in a high speed snatch and grab raid. 

im not sure this would apply elsewhere, my area is heavily fished so the fish are very wary.

[XD351]

Q1 - no an Alvey reel won’t catch you more fish , the idea behind using a centre pin reel is it easier to let the line out as the float drifts away from you . 
Q2 - yes a long rod with a soft action is preferable, a long rod can pick up more line when striking a fish and it makes mending the line ( keeping the line between the float and yourself straight ) much easier .

Q3- Yes berley is definitely needed , you don’t need a massive amount of weed mixed in with sand and I usually use old bait or any dried out weed that is no longer good for bait .

There is a million videos on YouTube about fishing for Luderick but I would take a look at the hook and the cook ,sticky fishy fishing and let’s go fishing channels 

[Burger]

It’s important to make sure your float is balanced right. Definitely no body showing and in really calm water maybe less than half a cm of the tip out of the water. Even the weight of the float can be the difference, so a light float for little water movt and calm to heavier float for rougher and fast moving water.

There are days they’re fussy on weed too. So if you can have a variety of string and cabbage.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Burger

[mrsswordfisherman]

 

[Koalaboi]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:33 PM, Denisfisho said:

 

1. Is it worth the time to grab an Alvey reel and learn the traditional methods of blackfishing? Is it more tradition or is an alvey reel more effective?

Yes..I definitely recommend using a centrepin reel. I have tried many over 50 years and am back to using a steelite reel which I reckon is as good as any. A centrepin gives you really good control.

2. Should I also grab a long blackfish style rod ? (I am thinking definitely yes but I am really tight on budgeting atm).

Yes…I reckon a twopiece is the go and they are cheap enough second hand on e-bay.

3. Is berleying essential? (I only ask because I dont want to be greedy with my weed spot if it impacts other fishers).

I never use berley but some people swear by it. 

3. I don't where I can find blackfish articles on the website, can anyone point me to some?

There’s some good ones here. I wrote one for beginners and you may find some useful tipsas wellas articles by others.

4. What are some typically good conditions for blackfish fishing? I guess 1 hour before and after high tide or?

Depends on where you’re fishing. Off the rocks i usually would fish the runup and top part of the tide. In Tuggerah Lakes, I tend to find as long as there is tidal movement you’re in with a shot. This cann vary but is usually true.

5. Whats the best ways to hook cabbage onto the lure and maybe any other tips? Is it normal to lose the weed without a proper down?

Yesterday I caught fish just folding a little bunch of cabbage (ulva) into a flat parcel and pushing the hook through a couple of times. Usually I will get a couple of leaves, push the hook through twice leaving a tail below the bend of the hook and the foot of the cabbage above the hook eye securing it to my trace with 2 half hitches.

A local down at shellharbour marina gave me some tips on how to handle a hooked blackfish which helped me to land the below the next day, crazy long fight.

 

[Denisfisho]

Thanks everyone for all the advice that Im sure will help me and any others that come to the forum looking for blackfish advice.

On 4/24/2022 at 10:22 PM, DerekD said:

Hi Mate,

Call me when you get the chance and have a pen and paper ready. I'm non traditional in the way I chase these and it works. Head to head the traditionalists will probably outdo me but that doesn't bother me.

Regards,

Derek

Hey Derek, I will give you a call sometime this week after work. Unfortunately, my phone fell out of my pocket into the water while fishing and was too deep to try and retrieve so Im using some cheap spare phone in the meantime.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Denisfisho

[Denisfisho]

On 4/25/2022 at 6:30 AM, noelm said:

If you live down Shellharbour way, and want to fish land based in the lake (not the ocean) then one of the best spots is the north west side of Windang bridge, outgoing tide, you will see the experts there regularly. Alvey reels (or any centre pin) are used because you can reverse the reel easy to allow a bit of line out when needed, but, spinning reels are OK for starters. A long soft rod has lots of advantages, easy to cast, less chance of pulling the hook (Blackfish have "soft" mouths) and less chance of breaking the light line used.

I actually tried that spot last weekend for blackfish but didn't have any luck but didnt pay attention to those conditions so Ill try again how you mentioned, that spot does get pretty busy at peak times though.

This reminds me of something I wanted to ask, how can I actually confirm when it's an outgoing or incoming tide when Im sitting at home for example? 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Denisfisho

[noelm]

Tide chart will help! Or just google it, don't fish off the jetty there, just off the little beach, you will know when the fish are on, there will be 5-6 people fishing there.

Edited April 26, 2022 by noelm

[Mullatt]

The other thing I'd add, apologies if its been mentioned previously, is when fishing particularly off wharves and rocks is to have a long handled net cos as others mentioned they have a very soft mouth and can easily be lost at the last moment.

And as @Burgersaid, very important to have the float balanced just right with only the smallest amount just showing above the waterline.

Haven't done much blackfishing in recent years but it is such a great way to fish and rewarding. Have fun.

[noelm]

12 hours ago, noelm said:

Tide chart will help! Or just google it, don't fish off the jetty there, just off the little beach, you will know when the fish are on, there will be 5-6 people fishing there.

I guess I should add, just because the fish aren't "on" doesn't mean it's not worthwhile fishing anyway, you will nearly always get a few. Don't cast out too far, just to the edge of the weed beds, and let your float drift with the tide, then wind in and repeat. I get a few there on Squirt Worms when there's no "experts" fishing.

[JamoDamo]

Hey mate! 

Centrepin reels/alvey reels aren't critical to success however for blackfishing I find they are really good to use when playing the fish and also retrieving/giving line to the float. The centrepin is really good for line management and fighting the fish however it isn't necessary to catch them however I just prefer to use them as they are "the tool for the job". 

Long soft rods are really good for blackfish fishing if you are going for them near places that have structure ie oyster encrusted rocks, breakwalls, wharves and so on, they are really really good for steering the fish out of structure as they try to get you into snags to break you off. A good one to get that I personally have is a Jarvis walker Aurora Jimmy Crane 8'6, its floppy and noodly as all hell and has the taper and length you need to catch them and its only $30!

Regarding burley, generally when you arrive at a spot you can usually pinpoint whether the fish are there and feeding and already on the job or whether they are not feeding, berley is extremely important to attract feeding fish or turn non feeding fish into feeding fish. Watch the current and see where your burley with disperse when you throw your burley bomb in. Throw your berley up current and fish your float back into the burley stream at about a rod length of depth or 2 or more foot above the bottom and by doing this you should get a couple!

With blackfishing spots are almost always dependent on the tide, you will have certain spots that will only have fish that will feed on a certain tide ie run in or out. Fish either side of the tide and work out what tide they feed on and by doing this you will get a few. Never really had to get nitpicky with barometer and everything else, they are usually just an extremely tide dependent fish. Anywhere with a bit of current and rocks should hold em!

When baiting greenweed you want to wrap it twice up the line above the hook whilst wrapping the weed down the shank over the point, then at the top you want to wrap it the other way to cross over the wraps, put a half hitch over the top of it and trim the tag and you should be sweet, also the thickness of your weed strand only needs to be 3-4mm wide and about 10 cm long.

Sorry if I didn't explain it too well but you need help send me a pm and i'll help you out!

[Denisfisho]

9 hours ago, noelm said:

I guess I should add, just because the fish aren't "on" doesn't mean it's not worthwhile fishing anyway, you will nearly always get a few. Don't cast out too far, just to the edge of the weed beds, and let your float drift with the tide, then wind in and repeat. I get a few there on Squirt Worms when there's no "experts" fishing.

I'll have to give it a go. THis isnt related but I noticed how on windang bridge fishing is banned but I always see atleast one guy fishing on it everytime I drive past hah.

 

I'll be potentially scouting out multiple land based locations of lake illawarra as I suspect there are good locations kept on the downlo.  

Edited April 27, 2022 by Denisfisho

[Denisfisho]

8 hours ago, JamoDamo said:

Hey mate! 

Centrepin reels/alvey reels aren't critical to success however for blackfishing I find they are really good to use when playing the fish and also retrieving/giving line to the float. The centrepin is really good for line management and fighting the fish however it isn't necessary to catch them however I just prefer to use them as they are "the tool for the job". 

Long soft rods are really good for blackfish fishing if you are going for them near places that have structure ie oyster encrusted rocks, breakwalls, wharves and so on, they are really really good for steering the fish out of structure as they try to get you into snags to break you off. A good one to get that I personally have is a Jarvis walker Aurora Jimmy Crane 8'6, its floppy and noodly as all hell and has the taper and length you need to catch them and its only $30!

Regarding burley, generally when you arrive at a spot you can usually pinpoint whether the fish are there and feeding and already on the job or whether they are not feeding, berley is extremely important to attract feeding fish or turn non feeding fish into feeding fish. Watch the current and see where your burley with disperse when you throw your burley bomb in. Throw your berley up current and fish your float back into the burley stream at about a rod length of depth or 2 or more foot above the bottom and by doing this you should get a couple!

With blackfishing spots are almost always dependent on the tide, you will have certain spots that will only have fish that will feed on a certain tide ie run in or out. Fish either side of the tide and work out what tide they feed on and by doing this you will get a few. Never really had to get nitpicky with barometer and everything else, they are usually just an extremely tide dependent fish. Anywhere with a bit of current and rocks should hold em!

When baiting greenweed you want to wrap it twice up the line above the hook whilst wrapping the weed down the shank over the point, then at the top you want to wrap it the other way to cross over the wraps, put a half hitch over the top of it and trim the tag and you should be sweet, also the thickness of your weed strand only needs to be 3-4mm wide and about 10 cm long.

Sorry if I didn't explain it too well but you need help send me a pm and i'll help you out!

Thanks, I'll definitely atleast get that rod to start out with and probably get the reel if my june tax return comes out as a nice refund.

I do have a spot down south where I can collect the normal weed so I might go grab some and try those instead.

 

Since dropping my phone into the water my parents and wife have staged some sort've intervention on me where Im not allowed to fish except on weekends so will see if I can get out this sunday haha.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Denisfisho

[noelm]

9 minutes ago, Denisfisho said:

I'll have to give it a go. THis isnt related but I noticed how on windang bridge fishing is banned but I always see atleast one guy fishing on it everytime I drive past hah.

 

I'll be potentially scouting out multiple land based locations of lake illawarra as I suspect there are good locations kept on the downlo.  

Fishing has always been banned on the bridge, and I think the same applies to all road and rail bridges in NSW, but, people still fish there, to be honest, the fishing is not great off the bridge, it's just easy, take a fold up chair and dangle your line.....

[craka]

3 hours ago, Denisfisho said:

Thanks, I'll definitely atleast get that rod to start out with and probably get the reel if my june tax return comes out as a nice refund.

I do have a spot down south where I can collect the normal weed so I might go grab some and try those instead.

 

Since dropping my phone into the water my parents and wife have staged some sort've intervention on me where Im not allowed to fish except on weekends so will see if I can get out this sunday haha.

I'm all for buying Australian made products when I can, I do have the older Alvey 475B which I believe they no longer make but was alot cheaper then the replacement which is the Alvey float series 47GZ, which is about $180 bucks from memory. What I'm trying to say is if you want a centrepin but don't want to part with that much cash up front there are E bay type example for a lot less, can't vouch for their quality but it may be an option.  Or you could look at 2nd hand Alvey, Steelite , etc as long as they are in decent working order.

[XD351]

The current Alvey float reel is  $249 from Alvey. 
For  a beginner I would recommend a threadline reel as the centre pin can take a little getting used to in regards to line management . I think it is more important to concentrate on the terminal tackle and technique for the moment , this is what will help to catch more fish rather than a shiny new reel . I don’t know the exact spots where Denisfisho is fishing but there are quite a few decisions to make like do I need a floatant on the main line , what float to use and how deep to fish . If he is fishing off a wharf with the float directly below he won’t need a floatant but if the float is required to drift along away from the angler a floatant is needed , some use Vaseline , i use mucellin or fly line floatant . This is so the main line ( above the stopper ) doesn’t sink and allows for a clean strike when setting the hook - if it sinks all you are doing is pulling the float down when you strike and you won’t hook anything - you want the line to lift cleanly off the waters surface . Use mono line for the main line as fluorocarbon sinks ( it is good for the trace though ). And with the strike it is more a smooth lift of the rod until weight is felt - nothing savage is required as you are using tiny hooks and a Luderick mouth isn’t very tough .

Float choice is really something that experience will dictate and depends on current , depth , water conditions and location . The best thing an angler can do is go to where they want to fish and observe , look at what the other fishos are using , try to gauge the depth they are fishing ( watch for the float stop when they wind in to re bait or land a fish  ) , Don’t worry about checking out the fish they just caught - concentrate on what rig they are using and try to copy it . Don’t be a pest , just watch and learn then go back on the same sort of  tide and try yourself . 
Also remember that where there are Luderick there more than likely will be bream as well so always take some bread with you , up the hook size a bit ( #1 baitholder is my preference)  , bait up with bread and fish it exactly like you did for Luderick . Mash up  some bread and use it for berley - lost count of how many times I have done this and gone home with a feed of bream when the Luderick have been quiet .

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by XD351
To exorcise the evil that spellcheck is

[Denisfisho]

Thanks to everyone for the advice in this post.

One of the most helpful things here was particular reference to the tides and with that in mind I think I've better understood my favourite spot and probably for the first time in more than 1 year of fishing got to take home more than just a single fish (took home three, 30cm plus).

It seems to me like the run out tide brought in the bigger ludericks who really weren't hesitating to go for the cabbage then when the run stopped they had no interest at all.

The biggest issue of the day was just placing the cabbage in a way that could get a down instead of just being nibbled off.

Was getting so much action that a person walking by who seemed to be a luderick enthusiast came by for a chat and just watched the action (luderick seem to like hooking up when someone is talking to me).

I'll be swapping to a luderick targeting rod in the future and after that might try those alvey etc reels also.

Thx again

Edited May 15, 2022 by Denisfisho

[Little_Flatty]

6 minutes ago, Denisfisho said:

Thanks to everyone for the advice in this post.

One of the most helpful things here was particular reference to the tides and with that in mind I think I've better understood my favourite spot and probably for the first time in more than 1 year of fishing got to take home more than just a single fish (took home three, 30cm plus).

It seems to me like the run out tide brought in the bigger ludericks who really weren't hesitating to go for the weed then when the run stopped they had no interest at all.

The biggest issue of the day was just placing the weed in a way that could get a down instead of just being nibbled off.

Was getting so much action that a person walking by who seemed to be a luderick enthusiast came by for a chat and just watched the action (luderick seem to like hooking up when someone is talking to me).

I'll be swapping to a luderick targeting rod in the future and after that might try those alvey etc reels also.

Thx again

Denis, that is just superb! Well done on landing a few quality luderick and cracking the code in your neighbourhood. Bet your partner was surprised when you came home with dinner!