Puzzled about rod weights

[DexterCatt]

This is my first post on Fishraider, so I'm hoping I'm in the right place. After having been getting some experience at beach (baits) and estuary (baits and lures) fishing with my son over the the past 18 months, we thought we'd have a go at casting metal lures for salmon, tailor, and such around Sydney harbour. Perhaps we'll move to some cautious ocean rock fishing at a later time. I have a mate that is very responsible and experienced.

But here's my concern - I ordered two rods online thinking I would be getting a medium-light and a medium setup. Rod 1 is a Daiwa Seabass 96ML ("4-8kg").  Rod 2 is a Penn Prevail II 1062SPM ("5-9kg"). The Daiwa rod seems very light for purpose, and on weighing came in at 165g, In contrast, the Penn rod seems heavy, coming in at 363g. That's more than twice as much, and yet these two rods have line and lure recommendations from the manufacturer that would indicate my expectations were reasonable. Am I missing something here? And why do so few rod manufacturers publish the weights of their rods. It's a huge selling point for reels.

Just for context, below is a link for a manufacturer that does include rod weights (Ocean Gate Shore Jig rods). If these are more representative, then I might have expected my rods to weigh somewhere either side of 240 grams or so.

https://jackson-quon.com/product/1084/

I'm reluctant to fish these rods yet, as the retailer is reputable and a short drive away, so I may seek to exchange.

Any opinions, advice, or recommendations would be very welcome.

[Green Hornet]

Although I don’t own either of the rods you mention, I do own a couple of Daiwa rods suited to land based lure casting. Both my rods suit lure weights toward the lower end of their recommendation, so at a guess I’d say your Seabass would probably perform at its optimum with line around 4-6kg and lures up to 30g.

I can’t comment  on the Penn, but know Shimano’s rods are more suited to something around the middle of their rating.

There isn’t a standard rating across the brands and all rods should be judged by their individual merits at time of purchase.

[Little_Flatty]

 @DexterCatt! You'll find good advice here.

Interesting question. I don't have much to offer in terms of advice, but I have noticed graphite rods are much thinner and lighter for a given line class than they were 20 years ago. All things equal, lighter equipment is almost always better, especially for lure casting.

[dirvin21]

The physical weight of the rod will depend on the blank material and type of graphite plus the handles etc..

Some of the higher end graphite rods are incredibly light for their line class

[Ganguddy Goodoo]

Hi DexterCatt,

We must be totally on the same wavelength. I've got he same 96ML Seabass and a medium Prevail in 12 foot. Both rods are more than adequate for what i do. Like you I fish with my son (10). On the beach he uses the Seabass and I use the Prevail casting slightly heavier metals. If I'm fishing by myself I much prefer the lighter Seabass for most of my lure fishing and only occasionally use the Prevail to chuck Pillies or heavier lures.

With regard to the rod weight I see the Seabass as a slightly more high end rod so it has a better weight to grunt ratio. I've got confidence in it for salmon/tailor. In my view if I get into any trouble with the Seabass it will be user error rather than lack of power or durability. 

[DexterCatt]

17 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

Although I don’t own either of the rods you mention, I do own a couple of Daiwa rods suited to land based lure casting. Both my rods suit lure weights toward the lower end of their recommendation, so at a guess I’d say your Seabass would probably perform at its optimum with line around 4-6kg and lures up to 30g.

I can’t comment  on the Penn, but know Shimano’s rods are more suited to something around the middle of their rating.

There isn’t a standard rating across the brands and all rods should be judged by their individual merits at time of purchase.

...yes your take on both Daiwa and Shimano rods does appear to fit a pattern, thinking about my own gear. As does judgement at the time of purchase.

[DexterCatt]

16 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

 @DexterCatt! You'll find good advice here.

Interesting question. I don't have much to offer in terms of advice, but I have noticed graphite rods are much thinner and lighter for a given line class than they were 20 years ago. All things equal, lighter equipment is almost always better, especially for lure casting.

Agree that lighter is better for lure casting, this concerned me about the Penn rod. But I wondered if Daiwa were employing marketing tactics. Perhaps if people pick up a really light rod are they more likely to buy it, when the line and lure recommendations are they same as a heavier rod from a competing brand. 

[DexterCatt]

15 hours ago, dirvin21 said:

The physical weight of the rod will depend on the blank material and type of graphite plus the handles etc..

Some of the higher end graphite rods are incredibly light for their line class

I definitely believe that about the higher end rods. I wondered if Daiwa were managing to incorporate some fantastic tech into a sub $200 rod. Tech that their competitors could not match. I'm also beginning to suspect a big part of the Penn rod's weight is in the handle.

[DexterCatt]

15 hours ago, Ganguddy Goodoo said:

Hi DexterCatt,

We must be totally on the same wavelength. I've got he same 96ML Seabass and a medium Prevail in 12 foot. Both rods are more than adequate for what i do. Like you I fish with my son (10). On the beach he uses the Seabass and I use the Prevail casting slightly heavier metals. If I'm fishing by myself I much prefer the lighter Seabass for most of my lure fishing and only occasionally use the Prevail to chuck Pillies or heavier lures.

With regard to the rod weight I see the Seabass as a slightly more high end rod so it has a better weight to grunt ratio. I've got confidence in it for salmon/tailor. In my view if I get into any trouble with the Seabass it will be user error rather than lack of power or durability. 

Thanks for the reply. It's good to read that you have faith in the Sea Bass. I'm wondering if the Penn feels heavy if you're continually making casts?

[XD351]

The weight of the components can vary as well - going from double foot to single foot guides can chop a significant amount of weight off a rod as there is less material in the guide , less binding  and epoxy . I have the 10’6” seabass and like it a lot for flicking SP on the beach or if I want to punch a plastic a long way out over a sand bank in the estuary . 
The recommended cast weight for the seabass is 7-35g and the prevail is 15-60 so a much more heavily built rod , the seabass might be for instance a 4 wrap rod and the prevail a 6 or more wrap job ( by wrap I mean layers in the rod blank ). I wouldn’t read to much into the actual physical weight of the rod as  the  length , action ( ie fast , medium or slow etc - I would class your rods as medium action  )  , recommended lure weight and line class are more important.  

[XD351]

10 hours ago, DexterCatt said:

I definitely believe that about the higher end rods. I wondered if Daiwa were managing to incorporate some fantastic tech into a sub $200 rod. Tech that their competitors could not match. I'm also beginning to suspect a big part of the Penn rod's weight is in the handle.

Could have a weighted butt section to help balance the rod with todays lightweight reels , I have seen someone resort to glueing sinkers in the butt to correct a tip heavy rod . 

[Rob81]

They're two different types of rod, Daiwa is a seabass rod (oddly enough the same name as the type of rod it is) which tends to be light duty, and the prevail is more a medium duty rod.

The seabass rods tend to have more of a bend towards the mid-length to upper 3rd length of the rod, where the prevail is a little more higher up. The power of the Daiwa is down to mid-low where the Penn is higher. The action on lures would also be different between the two.

[Ganguddy Goodoo]

On 6/27/2022 at 12:24 AM, DexterCatt said:

Thanks for the reply. It's good to read that you have faith in the Sea Bass. I'm wondering if the Penn feels heavy if you're continually making casts?

For me, only a concern for longer sessions or if I'm covering lots of ground. I'm guessing your 10 footer will feel nicer than my 12 in this regard. If you take the 2 rods down and swap between them the difference in weight will be noticeable. Have fun.

[Ganguddy Goodoo]

Ancient thread but I have a bit of an ironic update on the Seabass 9'6. I've landed plenty of salmon, bream and fatties off the beach/rocks with it and really like it. My son managed to break the tip landing a thumper of a salmon off the rocks last weekend. Claimed the brag mat indicated 89cm but also said the fish was moving around making it difficult to measure. I told him to take off 15cm and buy me a new rod.

[Green Hornet]

11 hours ago, Ganguddy Goodoo said:

Ancient thread but I have a bit of an ironic update on the Seabass 9'6. I've landed plenty of salmon, bream and fatties off the beach/rocks with it and really like it. My son managed to break the tip landing a thumper of a salmon off the rocks last weekend. Claimed the brag mat indicated 89cm but also said the fish was moving around making it difficult to measure. I told him to take off 15cm and buy me a new rod.

89cm is a thumper of a salmon, though shame about the rod.  
Before you go out and replace the Seabass with another, take a look at a Daiwa Overthere as well. They’re a very nice rod and great value for money.

[Ganguddy Goodoo]

thanks GH. We actually have a slightly heavier Overthere which is great for chucking 30-40g metals. The Seabass was awesome for 15-20g lures and for walking long distances down the beach looking for gutters. The young bloke wants to get a rod that can handle bigger lures (100g ish) as he just wants to catch big fish. I've told him to just learn as much as he can and fish in as many different places as possible. At least he is getting back into fishing after not showing any interest for a few years.